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Two Federal Gas Billy Clubs


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#1 snipershot1944

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 07:18 PM

Rather than hijack the other thread, here are two Federal Billy Gas clubs I recently found. I'd be interested in any comments on vintage, value, history, etc. thanks

David

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#2 dalbert

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

They are both 12 gauge, correct?  Is one longer than the other, or is that just the camera angle?

 

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#3 snipershot1944

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:06 PM

David. They are basically the same size. The brass one has a body about 1/2 inch shorter and has a longer cocking piece.

How do I determine gauge?

These are the first of these I've seen.
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#4 dalbert

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:23 AM

I'm fairly certain they are 12 gauge, which is standard.  I was thinking there was a possibility that one of them was 10 gauge, but if they are almost the same size, they're going to be 12 gauge.  

 

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#5 snipershot1944

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:14 PM

I unscrewed both barrels from the bases and compared them to a 12 gauge shell. The interior is significantly larger. So I guess 10 gauge?

Any thought on what I have and value?
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#6 ron_brock

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:04 AM

Can you include a photo of the firing pin side (inside the billy once the barrel is unscrewed)?  Is the dark one also Pittsburgh addressed?  I cannot make it out in the photo.

 

Thanks

Ron


Edited by ron_brock, 14 April 2017 - 10:06 AM.

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#7 sherman3

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:35 PM

I believe the dark colored one is an electric fired model.10 Ga.


Edited by sherman3, 15 April 2017 - 01:05 PM.

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#8 snipershot1944

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:52 AM

Attached are several photos of the dark Billy, made of brass. Comments on history and value would be greatly appreciated.


Attached are several photos of the dark Billy, made of brass. Comments on history and value would be greatly appreciated.

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Edited by snipershot1944, 16 April 2017 - 08:53 AM.

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#9 snipershot1944

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 08:55 AM

And here are photos of the alumimium Billy. I don't see a spot for a battery in either. Both appear to be striker fired. Again history and value comments would be appreciated.

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#10 dalbert

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 09:03 AM

Are you 100% certain it's 10 gauge?

 

David Albert

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#11 snipershot1944

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 09:33 AM

I've never seen one of these darn things before but if you try to put a 12 ga shotgun shell in it its about 1/6 inch too small.
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#12 dalbert

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 05:30 PM

OK, that seems to confirm 10 gauge.  I'm only aware of one other 10 gauge example, which was offered to me locally within the past few years.  My understanding is that there was some kind of issue with these back in the day, and they were pulled from Fed Labs inventory, and not sold again.  If I recall correctly, there may have been an issue with them being able to shoot 10 gauge shells, and thus had potential issues with ATF.  I'm going from memory.  The person who has one locally sent me a letter, and talked to me on the phone, and I need to find that letter for further reference.  Anyway, while they may be rare, they don't seem to have much value, and are in kind of a grey area with ATF.  

 

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#13 snipershot1944

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 07:57 PM

Ok. Thanks. Here are pics with 12 ga shells. The barrel tube simply swallows the shell. As to firing it with a 10 ga she'll, there is a cross pin midway down the barrel. If you tried it once, you might acquire a new nickname, "Stumpy".

Both were acquired from the estate of a NYPD Detective.

If anyone is interested in buying them, please get with me via email.

David

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#14 ron_brock

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:56 PM

OK, that seems to confirm 10 gauge.  I'm only aware of one other 10 gauge example, which was offered to me locally within the past few years.  My understanding is that there was some kind of issue with these back in the day, and they were pulled from Fed Labs inventory, and not sold again.  If I recall correctly, there may have been an issue with them being able to shoot 10 gauge shells, and thus had potential issues with ATF.  I'm going from memory.  The person who has one locally sent me a letter, and talked to me on the phone, and I need to find that letter for further reference.  Anyway, while they may be rare, they don't seem to have much value, and are in kind of a grey area with ATF.  

 

David Albert

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David A,

 

Do you still have those pics?  I was trying to find them but I think it was a text you sent on my old phone and i have lost them.  I would like to compare as I believe that billy is different from these.  I seem to recall it was longer in length and had a flat base where the striker was positioned so that it actually could fire a 10ga shotgun shell if one was inclined to try it once.  

 

These two look similar to the ones I have.  A 12 ga shell will fit into the area where the striker is, but a 10 ga will fit in the barrel.  The striker would not be able to ignite a 10 ga shell due to the rebated striker.  These used a specific tear gas cartridge.

 

David,

What is the overall length on both of these?  Could you include a photo of the muzzle as well?

 

Thanks

Ron


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#15 dalbert

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:49 PM

I'm going to have to look for that letter when I'm back home, which may be the weekend after this.  

 

David


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#16 snipershot1944

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:15 PM

Requested photos attached.

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#17 Bob K

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:34 PM

I have one that I think is 10 ga. 

This set of pics is with a 10 ga shell.

The body of the 10 ga is about 1/16 loose to the bore, but the rim fits perfectly. 

This thing would fire a 10 ga shell, but I wouldn't try it.

10%20gage%205.jpg

 

10%20gage%204.jpg

 

10%20gage%203.jpg

 

10%20gage%202.jpg

 

10%20gage%201.jpg


Edited by Bob K, 21 April 2017 - 07:45 PM.

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#18 Bob K

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:36 PM

This set of pics is with a 12 ga shell.

The 12 ga shell goes all the way through.

The rim size is pretty close to the bore size.

 

12%20gage%201.jpg

 

12%20gage%202.jpg

 

12%20gage%203.jpg


Edited by Bob K, 21 April 2017 - 07:46 PM.

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#19 Bob K

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:37 PM

additional pics

 

20170421_184755.jpg

 

20170421_184038.jpg

 

20170421_183543.jpg


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#20 sherman3

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:37 AM

<p>Yours is a #M39 blast type. It used #307 and I believe #308 cartridges. It was replaced by the #M49 still 10ga bore but a modified breech that would not fire a standard 10ga round.&nbsp;Very nice example.</p>

Edited by sherman3, 22 April 2017 - 10:02 AM.

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