Jump to content

Transfer Question.


Recommended Posts

I'm looking at a Thompson that's currently registered on a Form 4 in another state. Besides the finger printing, photo, etc.; what are the other steps in this instance? I've been told by the Class III handeling the seller's end that the current owner will have to pay his $200 to transfer it to a Class III in my state, then I pay my $200 to transfer it from the Class III to me. That seems like a lot of confusion to me. It seems like the seller could transfer it to my Class III, and then on a Form 4 to me. But, this is ALL NEW to me! What's the low - down, fellas?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, call me... I talked to the Class III, and forgot to ask! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif But, it's a Savage M1928A1, so I imagine it's C&R. Edited by LSU Tiger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, with a C&R license, you can even have a class III sent directly to you?

 

What paper work (Form name) would one have to complete if someone with a C&R is going to buy a ClassIII item?

 

Does it matter if the seller is out of state?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can have the gun sent directly to you if it is a C&R gun. If you buy a newer WH 1928, it is not C&R so it doesn't go. You fill out the same forms but where it asks for the dealer info, you fill that in with your C&R numbers. It only costs $30 for 3 years for the permit. And if you have the C&R gun, you don't have to fill out the 5320.20 form to take your gun across state lines. This should be the link to the C&R form.

 

C&R form link

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's just review this one more time.

 

A C&R machine gun can be sent across state lines directly to a C&R license holder. The transfer is done on a Form 4. It doesn't matter whether the transferror possesses the machine gun on a Form 4 (an individual) or a Form 3 (a dealer). In other words, for C&R machine guns, an indvidual does not have to transfer a machine gun through an intervening C3 dealer if the receiving party holds a valid C&R license. Did I get that right?

 

Also, C&R license holders should be reminded that if you purchase a C&R firearm after the effective date of your license, you must log that purchase into your bound book even if the purchase/transfer does not reference your C&R license. Finally, while your license is in effect, any disposition of a C&R firearm, even if it a gun that you bought before you were issued your license, must be logged in your bound book.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your license is revoked or expires, you keep all your guns.

 

You do not need fingerprints or CLEO signoff for C&R license. Just a letter to the CLEO notifying them that you have applied for a C&R license. Note that you still need the fingerprint cards and CLEO signoff for the Form 4 though.

 

Here's a link to a really good source of C&R info.

 

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread....&threadid=33083

 

The FAL site also gives links to other good sites.

 

It took 2 months to get my license. Also note that many vendors will give C&R holders the same discounts as they do full-fledged "dealers". Finally, though I've not tried it, a C&R license should qualify you for entry to the SHOT show.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you have to log in all your previous guns (non NFA), does it ask details like, where purchased, when, how much, etc. I don't remember all this stuff on some of my guns.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another point: Item #7 on the C&R app wants the names of other "responsible parties." My wife has no interest in any of this stuff. Should I list her? I would be the only one using the C&R. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you live in Louisiana Tiger fan? If so then you must also get state approval before the gun is shipped into the state.

 

The Louisiana department of Public saftey has a MG form that goes through the same office for approval as the concealed handgun permits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also new to this process. Currenlty my gun has just arrived at my dealer. The approved Louisiana DPS form had to be submitted with the Form 3 transfer. The ATF will not approve any transfer into Louisiana without the approved DPS form attached.

 

I will try to give him a call this week and see how and where to get the forms.

 

You might also try calling the concealed handgun division of the state police, perhaps they would have the info, I think that this is the office that handles it. That number is on the DPS website.

 

If I find anything I will post or email.

 

Michael

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried to get one (Thompson) twenty years ago, and you needed a letter to the Explosives Section stating that it was for collecting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You only have to list the guns purchased with your C&R. If you bought it before you had it I do not believe you have to list it. And yes I think there was a photo you had to attach with the form. I could be wrong on that but I sent in my form 4 and my C&R within a day of each other.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It,s nothing like that, but I'd say go through a dealer that knows the system and can guide you through.

 

That way he handles getting it into the state.

 

Where do you live? Perhaps there is a dealer near by that could guide you through.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (full auto 45 @ May 1 2004, 10:45 AM)
You only have to list the guns purchased with your C&R. If you bought it before you had it I do not believe you have to list it. And yes I think there was a photo you had to attach with the form. I could be wrong on that but I sent in my form 4 and my C&R within a day of each other.

 

Mike is correct on point #1. You do not log C&R purchases made prior to the issue date of your C&R. You MUST log EVERY C&R-eligible purchase made after the issue date of the C&R license. Doesn't matter if you utilize your license or not.

 

While your license is in effect, you log ANY disposition of a C&R-eligible gun, regardless if that gun was acquired before or after your C&R license became effective. After your license expires or is no longer in effect, there are no requirements to log any dipositions; even if the disposition is a gun you acquired via your license.

 

There is no picture required for C&R application.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (PhilOhio @ May 1 2004, 05:26 PM)

Anybody else have a comment on this?  I've just been accepting what ATFE told me, until reading Kyle's post.

This has been discussed exhaustively on another board. One particular thread has a letter from the ATF discussing this very point. I'll find and post the link.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure Phil, I'll back up what Kyle has written, with the regs. Regardless of what some well-intentioned (or otherwise) BATF agent may say, the USC and CFR supercede him. All C&R firearms acquired or disposed of while a person holds a C&R FFL must be logged. The regs are crystal clear on this.

 

CFR 178.125(f) deals specifically with C&R FFL holders and in part, "Each licensed collector shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms curios or relics. " (emphasis added.) No mention about use/non-use of a C&R FFL, only that C&R A&Ds must be recorded/logged.

18 USC Ch 44 923(g)(2) says basically the same thing: "Each licensed collector shall maintain in a bound volume the nature of which the Secretary may by regulations prescribe, records of receipt, sale, or other disposition of firearms." (emphasis added.) Again, no mention of being exempted by not using your C&R FFL.

 

As for pre-FFL C&R firearms they do not need to be logged unless/until the C&R FFL holder disposes of them. At that point, the C&R FFL simply logs them into his book as coming from himself as acquired pre-FFL , and then logs it out immediately to the transferee (recipient.) Moreover, a C&R FFL does not log non-C&R firearms, either in or out.

 

 

"It is not a license to purchase guns within the state."

 

This is also not true, despite what may be written on the back of a C&R FFL. FAQ numbers (G1) and (G2) state that a C&R FFL first, applies only to transactions involving C&R firearms, and second, a licensed collector has the same status under GCA '68 as a non-licensee for all firearms' transactions that are not C&R transactions.

 

See CFR 178.93: "The license issued to a collector of curios or relics...shall cover only transactions by the licensed collector in curios and relics. The collector's license is of no force or effect and a licensed collector is of the same status under the [GCA] and this part as a nonlicensee with respect to (a) any acquisition or disposition of firearms other than curios or relics, or any transportation, shipment, or receipt of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce,; and (B) any transaction with a nonlicensee involving any firearm other than a curio or relic. ..."

 

CFR 178.93 basically says a C&R FFL is the same as any other FFL as long as the firearms acquired/disposed are C&R firearms only. Therefore a C&R FFL can receive C&R firearms via interstate commerce..

 

More importantly, (and to the heart of the matter regarding use only in interstate transactions of C&R firearms) see CFR 178.50 (B) : "a licensed collector may acquire curios or relics at any location, and dispose of curios or relics to any licensee or to other persons who are residents of the state where the collector's license is held, and the disposition is made."

 

CFR 178.50 (B) specifically allows a C&R FFL holder to acquire C&R firearms intrastate and interstate. Think about in the most simple terms, a C&R FFL is an FFL that is (A) limited to C&R firearms only, and (B) is not for conducting a business. Other types of FFLs are can be used for both C&R and non-C&R firearms and are intended for a business. ("Business" and "dealer" being defined under 18USC Ch 44 921(a) (11) and (21) as somone who devotes time to buying/selling firearms with the principal objective of "livelihood and ... pecuniary gain" (i.e., trying to make a living dealing in guns.))

Edited by Bill in VA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, that's the chapter & verse. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to ask a question here, but I think the last post answered it. Never mind.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I bought a Colt Woodsman several years ago per our ordinary state pistol purchase permit procedures, before I had the C&R license. If I sell the Woodsman while the C&R license is valid, I have to log it off my bound book. even though it is never logged on. If I let the C&R license expire, I do nothing if I sell the Woodsman.

I'm confused.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...