carlt Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 I am selling some old Ingram SMG manuals and sales brochures, but I also have the only US Military test of the Ingram M10 and M11 guns with silencers, which lists two groups of guns shipped to the US Military for testing listed by serial numbers. The first sets of guns were returned ot MAC/Sionics and replacements were sent. I was told by an old time dealer that a few of these returned guns were refurbished and ended up in dealer hands through the first MAC auction, so possible need to verify serial numbers as legititmate US military test Ingrams. I know it is not an M6, but still INGRAM. PM me and I will try and either scann the numbers or write them out as a post. Cheers http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/xm10%20xm11%202_zps02mlh2wv.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Carlt, I would love to have a scan of that information. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) I will try and get this done tonight at work if the scanner is working right. Didnt know that the Military rejected the first batch of 45 Ingrams and magazines! Sounds like they, MAC, hand made custom safeties in their model shop and none of them allowed full auto fire. I guess that is where Jim Leatherwood of sniper scope fame stepped up and designed his safety for the Ingram. I guess they should have stuck to Mr Ingram's original design with the sliding safety like the Suomi 9mm SMG. By the way, does anyone know anything about this?http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/asp%20ingram%20silencer_zpsdv5snpc4.jpg A person emailed it to me looking for an original print for his MAC collection. Never saw it before but from an hour of google - looks like a very early Ingram M10 9mm before the Army tests with a in the white Sionics silencer and the thing below looks like an early version of a hand grip (probably not silencer) to protect your hands, I guess before the hand strap was added. There is a entry in the Army test that the silencer for the Ingram unscrews too easy, and the extra long thread area on the bottom thing may be someone's idea to fix that - like Gemtech's thread lock on their Ingram suppressor. Too small to be a silencer - or one that works. The company name looks like the "undercover" name of Seventrees holsters from NYC back in the day, the guys that made the ASP pistol design. Just pretty cool, but it could be a BS picture too. Fire away your thoughts! Edited November 8, 2015 by carlt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 That is an odd looking Ingram. I don't see a barrel pin, strap hanger, take down pin or safety. The bolt just doesn't look correct. Is that an adjustable sight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think because the ASP company was in New York city, they were sent a Ingram that was stripped and not opertional so they could do whatever contract work was needed. I saw some Seventrees/ASP paperwork on Ebay some time ago, and there were some official US Military letterhead showing Seventrees.ASP was allowed to work with NFA guns in NYC without a permit for the Government, It kind of looks like a very early Police polished Ingram since it has the adjustable front sight. Maybe the bolt and all other parts were taken out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACMAN Posted November 6, 2015 Report Share Posted November 6, 2015 PM Sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) A buddy took the time to scan the serial numbers of the original production MAC Ingram XM10 and XM11 SMGs (US Army model ID - Not MAC). I'll try and post some scans of the early Ingram SMG sales stuff too along with the MAC replacement 45 XM10 and XM11 pieces to replace the returned ones listed below. If you happen to own of of these returned weapons, please shoot me an email. Note, the biggest reason for returning the original 45 test pieces to MAC was that the hand built selector/safeties did not work. I guess that is when Jim Leatherwood got hired to modify the original Gordon Ingram design. http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/ce4d51ed-85af-40ba-a5c1-1ab596fb5b53_zpsver27qi7.png http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/aaaaa8b3-63af-47d6-bbe3-d754c8308045_zpszcpdp6cm.png http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/cea52f0c-0cf7-4138-994d-0f4cc370a04d_zpswhva1n1l.png The Weapon test order for 45 pieces was originally contracted for delivery by the end of 1970, but they were delayed until February 1971. The first batch of 45 weapons, 15 of each model was rejected and returned to MAC's factory in Powder Springs, GA by the Army since all had handmade safety selectors, and none of them worked correctly. MAC replaced each of the original shipped weapons with new ones and I will post up the replacement serial number weapons and suppressors as soon as my friend has the time to scan them. Original MAC sales brochure done with the original Ingram model guns in 1970 http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/Carlton57Chev/early20MAC_zpsenrvr87l.jpg Edited November 8, 2015 by carlt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Iannamico Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 The U.S, reports, and more are in the MAC MAN book. www.machinegunbooks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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