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Baby Face Nelson Replica Colt Mini Submachine Gun


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Thought I'd post this over on the other side-

During the recovery of a hernia repair, which I wasn't allowed to lift anything over 10# out here on the "ranch" I decided to do a Nelson mini replica, just cause. Tired of watching Judge Judy anyway. I was going to go the AOW route, but for many, many, many reasons, I gave up on that. Since Lebman made each one, one-off, I figured I could do what I wanted and I did. Just fun to pick up and show my pals, costs nothing- Doesn't fire, just a prop.

 

 

OCM

Edited by OCM
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Dremeled out the groove in the top of the grip to " exact" size of the frame front, to fit snug & still can operate the slide & hammer, safety etc. Gun cannot chamber anything at all, there is no chamber. Drilled a small pin in the grip to locate under the frame end. The magic is stuff called Goop between the frame & slide, but just enough so it doesn't squeeze out. track dry two minutes, CAREFULLY place together perfectly, bind together, set straight up for 24 hours- done. I have used this stuff on trim pieces of old cars for years. Gives about a 90% bond.

 

Thanks- Just stuff to do when you're sick I guess. Nothing to serious.

Edited by OCM
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Sandy,

In keeping with my philosophy ,--not to be outdone, I am posting a picture of the actual firearm used by Baby Face Jimmy.

A scoundrel who terrorized the great lakes states in the 1990s and 2000s. Legend has it that BFJ was the only person that Seal Team 6 feared.

Jim C

IMG_0006_1.JPG

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Wow, I was just messing with a replica, the ACE bandage is outstanding. Never heard of BF Jimmy. I bet Butt Faced Nelson would of loved to see this one. Again, you've pulled a trump card on me. Damn.

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nice.... other than assassination the full auto 1911 is kinda a waste/ psychological weapon.

Who wants to go up against a guy who can put 8 rounds of .45acp into your face in under 1 second.

 

 

I have shot an AOW 1911 before. forward grip just gives you a little more to work with at longer ranges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that one of the Zinc copies???

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. We need to bring those hats back into style.

Edited by StooperZero
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Well, Nelson used one in a very nasty fashion in at the Little Bohemia Lodge battle. Open the door to the Ford and gave it to two guys in the front seat with one. Point blank-

Couple guys I've talked to/emailed have fired the one at Big Sandy, also there is a YouTube of it.

Always thought it was a rather stupid weapon, just Lebman having fun in his shop in SA.

Yes a Zinc copy.

 

Myself I prefer the fedoras, as one of my idiot friends ( actually Buddy Barrow, Clyde's nephew) said I looked like WC Fields when I was wearing a straw boater. He & I kid all the time, just in fun, but- WC Fields is hitting below the belt !

 

OCM

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You can get a blank firing model of the same and convert it as I did. Be great for the re-enactor group. I think one of them had something at one of the shows, maybe Mason City ? I've never seen one used at the Gibsland event, would not be correct anyway.

I could of converted one of my live guns in this fashion, without hurting the gun whats so ever, BUT don't know how the ATF would view such without a 200 dollar tax process. Just isn't worth it to me. The tax stamp or the potential issue.

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that was my gripe a few years ago. $200 down the drain for basically a 'non-correct' novelty.

 

i had an older RIA 1911 and the plans for lebmans AOW version, but I was going to register it as SBR so i could put a quick detach stock on it as well. Just couldnt bring myself to do it.

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One of the guys on this forum, did a killer AOW of the Nelson-Lebman gun. Used a Colt 1911 commercial kit from Sarco. Just the correct amount of patina on it, a bit ruff, as it would look today. He sent some photos of it, which I can't use without his permission and he has sorta drifted away.

He did the whole ATF tax program. I think he is a Smith or a Smithy- type with a good shop, did it correctly as HS would of done or close.

I did a lengthy forum discussion on how the AOW works, maybe you saw it- I think it was under the Misc area here.

One of the original photos of the Lebman Colt he used a Army 1911, so be WWI version. Those guys are pricey- However my method would work without hurting the gun, but then, again, you add on a year and 200 bucks plus the misc crap. Grips are cheap, I sanded down my considerably, comps are 13 bucks.....

I converted a 1907 351 rifle with this method and it ran fine, this was many years ago. I removed the grip and sold the gun later-

 

Yes, the ATF rule is the letter of the law, has stopped a lot of us. And to think HS Lebman got off scott- free. Being good pals with Nelson is a bit iffy-

 

Stop Zero- look under off-topic area, personal manufactured firearms- Same stuff you went thru

Edited by OCM
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Got permission from the owner of the replica working Lebman model, to show pictures- This is real nice.... Totally legal AOW, Colt 1911 commercial automatic. Actually, in my mind's eye, how the original would look today.

 

 

 

 

OCM

Edited by OCM
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Sure as hell would draw a crowd at the range- This one was made with a grip hanger attached to the underside- He said he used rivets I think so they could be removed and repaired if ever needed.

From what I got from our discussion on the AOWs, the 200 dollar tax is really a registration fee, to be able to convert the weapon. After it's registered with the ATF, it becomes just another gun, not a NFA gun of course- That door is closed for future transfers.

He indicated it wasn't a big deal, just time & 200 clams.

He may chime in on this-

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You pay the $200 to Make it and future transfers for AOW are $5.

 

 

 

this would make it more deisreable for resale if the work was top notch. $5 transfer VS $200 if it were SBR'd .

Edited by StooperZero
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Without a doubt, the work would have to be top notch, then a very sellable item- Just a novelty, a small market, but it's all in just fun anyway. As I remember, if you can get someone with the proper license to make one, you dodge the tax but pay the smith, unless your brother is a qualified smith , or friend, daughter or other. Then it becomes materials and 5 bucks.

The fun would be making it tho. That's the whole point here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I put some feelers out to some local shops to acquire me a older RIA gov't 1911. Some things have fallen in my lap lately so I'm going to play the 8 month waiting game very soon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where does that compensator come from?

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Standard 45 black barrel bushing with a 3 slit comp attached- CHEAP on Ebay, 13-18 bucks. I think there are various quality ones, mine was just for display. The guy that made the working model, I think, made his with the 5 slits. Lebman made 7 slits. He did something like riveted a grip hanger on to attach the front grip. I think he said he got a call from the ATF on his AOW, asking what his plans were, he said add a grip to the front and that was that- OK. they said.

You may get away with 5 months now. Maybe sooner.

The comps really don't do anything other then make it more realistic as Lebman did. His were FA of course. I've read discussions on just what the comps do on semi-auto, doesn't seem like much either.

 

 

 

Good for you, keep the history alive and well.

 

OCM

Edited by OCM
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  • 8 months later...

Decided to " Just do it " as StopperZero said....

 

I've applied for the AOW, pending since November 20

 

I'm doing a Baby Face Nelson version, using a Colt 1918 US Army 1911, that I've been putting back to original, replacing some WWII parked parts.

Has great patina, just what I was looking for.

I've re-worked an India Thompson front grip ( hours ) to match a Colt grip as original. Successfully trashed my thumbs as normal.

California John Lebman is being very helpful on the project as he built the one shown above in post #13.

Can't do anything real on the gun till I get AOW approval from the ATF.

This is a blueprint photo idea on where I'm going on this. Gun will have a grip hanger installed to the frame , front grip rear will be cut to fit in front of the trigger guard- nose of it has already been nubbed off, computer compared to the original Nelson one. CJL is working on a long muzzle brake like the one he did on his ( post #13)

The (short) muzzle brake shown here is just an example I had in stock, with the India grip I've reworked, but not fit yet. My same gun here just two different lightings

 

Extremely fun project- Yes, semi only.

Edited by OCM
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Very cool. I may do one some day. On the Lebman gun and the one you shot did the handgrip extend past the muzzle like your mock up or will that be a little further back? I am just concerned about the hair on your pointer knuckles😀

 

I looked back at the photos and you may want to consider cutting off some of the "tail" of your grip to help bring the knuckles m slightly behind the muzzle.

 

Ron

Edited by ron_brock
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Ron,

front grip not sized yet- photo shows mock up I did as an experiment/ guide.

Uncut one ( except the nose) is below. This is the one I've reproduced to match a Colt, best I could.

California John Lebman said not to cut the tail till I can size it to the grip hanger. Can't do anything real permanent till the tax stamp comes in. Tail is cut off about 1 3/8" in the mock up, I'll be close on the working model.

Also the original 38 Super Lebman did for Dillinger- This is the look we are going for, except semi auto- The one Nelson had was the Army 45.

My hat off to CJL, he's the real Lebman on this project.

 

Sandy

Edited by OCM
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Ron,

Don't know about the mag, haven't gone there yet- Where I live 15 rds is the max. Once I get it done and firing and all, I'll address that. Might be something to talk over with CJL, since he has a working model.

 

Rob,

Back in the " day" I had made about 5 dummy Lebman Colt minis for various displays, The one at the Crown Point Museum may have been one of mine as I made them a wood escape pistol for display there- The one they got from the old Pinkston collection they kept in the back for security. The guy I was working with was the curator there ( Hammond), Spiro B. something.

The defunct Washington DC Crime Museum has my personal mock mini I did.

 

OCM

Edited by OCM
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