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List Of John Dillinger's Thompsons


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Like to compile a list of all know Thompsons in the possession of John Dillinger, serial #s, model, where they came from and where they are now.

I usually leaned on Rick Mattix that stored this info.

I can give the historical background on the guns, usually, but would be nice to know all the other stuff.

Anyone that has interest in this and info, jump right in. I'll be digging it up as I can-

 

The Racine Thompson, 1928 Navy Overstamp, #3363. Dillinger gang robbed the Racine, Wis. bank, November 20, 1933.

The local police had # 3363 in inventory ( only one Thompson ) . As Sergeant Wilbur Hansen entered the bank with the Thompson, rear stock off, he was met by gang member Charles Makley with a Colt 45 pistol and shot. Makley grabbed the Thompson . They left the scene. At the gangs arrest in Tucson Az. Jan, 25, 1934 #3363 is recovered and is returned to the Racine police dept. I believe it was retired in 1973.

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Work in progress:

 

October 14, 1933 Dillinger enters the Auburn , Indiana Police station and relieves the station of one Thompson

October 20, 1933 Dillinger raids the Peru, Indiana Police station of two Thompsons.

October 23, 1933 Dillinger gang robs the Greencastle, Indiana bank, gang member Charles Makley displays a Thompson , assume from the above raids

Racine bank, Nov 20, see above.

( New Years eve 1933/1934 in Daytona Beach, Dillinger was firing a Thompson into the ocean in celebration of the new year.)

 

There are 4 Thompsons to start 1934.

 

January 15, 1934 Dillinger robs the East Chicago bank banishing a Thompson and possibly kills ( under debate ) officer William Patrick O'Malley

 

January 25, 1934, Dillinger gang is caught in Tucson, AZ with 4 Thompsons in thier luggage.

 

One is the Racine 1928N # 3363. Two possibly three are still with the Tucson PD.

 

Working on models & serial numbers.

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According to Gordon's Colt Thompson Serial Number book, the Dillinger related TSMG's are as follows:

 

7387 and 6444 (Crown Point, IN - Stolen 3/3/34)

6099 (Allen County, Lima, Ohio - First TSMG stolen 10/12/33)

2689 (Auburn, IN - Stolen 10/14/33)

3170 and 7007 (Peru, IN) (According to Gordon, 7007 was not stolen - It was laying on a workbench disassembled when 3170 was stolen)

3363 and 7336 (Racine, WI - 3363 stolen 11/20/33, 7336 used by Dept.)

6315 and 6141 (Left behind at New Bohemia Lodge - Apparently stolen from company shipments)

8355 (FBI Special Agent Baum used at New Bohemia Lodge)

 

I think that's all of them, based on about a 10 minute look at Gordon's Dillinger section in his book.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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David, thanks will help a LOT. Going to attempt to list all, where they came from with a short bio, serial #, model and where they ened up i.e. where are they now. Maybe old recovery photos. ( Helmer just sent one this morning of the ones found in Lake Michigan )

Going to have to stab at the model from the photos, hope to get some help here on that, they all look like 21 ACs to me.

 

We still got the Tuscon Thompsons to ID, like to run down the Little Bo ones ( got photos ), Lake Michigan one.

 

March 3, 1934 Dillinger breaks out of the Crown Point escape-proof jail using a fake wooded pistol, Takes two Thompsons , # 7387 & # 6444.

 

March 6, 1934 the Dillinger gang robs the Security National Bank in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Three of the gang, including Baby Face Nelson, carried Thompsons

 

March 31, 1934 Dillinger is caught in St Paul and shoots a Thompson through a bedroom door and escapes with his girlfriend, using a 1933 Essex Terraplane 8 that I used to own ( had to throw in a kudo ) . Probably # 7387 or #6444 ( may have left one there ?- have to find St Paul records )

Dillinger shot in the knee

 

April 7, 1934 Dillinger is pictured at the family farm in Mooresville with # 7387 or # 6444 and the wooden gun used to escape Crown Point.

 

April 13, 1934 Dillinger raids the Warsaw, Indiana police station using a Thompson, no Thompsons taken

 

April 23, 1934 Dillinger, Baby Face Nelson and others have a shoot-out at the Little Bohemia Lodge in Mercer, Wis. Left behind Thompsonss # 6315 & # 6141

 

June 30, 1934 Dillinger robs the South Bend, Indiana bank, while gang member Homer Van Meter stands out front with a Thompson. We have an actual photo of Van Meter out front of the bank with the Thompson while Dillinger is inside robbing it

 

July 22. 1934 Dillinger killed in Chicago. The lady that owned the apartment where he was staying ( lady in red ) had her some take the Thompson , a bullet-proof vest, Colt 38 Super, some magazines & dump them in Lake Michigan. All was recovered.

 

Now to start- help ?

 

OCM

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Tucson Thompsons recovered from the Dillinger gang- Little bit of a mystery here, the photo of the arresting officers ( 1934) show 4 Thompsons on display with the vests, Winchester 07s, 45 autos. The list of items from the police report only lists 3 Thompsons.

 

# 5878, # 8946- Both on display at the Tucson PD headquarters , currently I believe.

# 3363 the Racine gun returned to Racine.

???? on the 4th.

Looking for the Lima, Ohio Thompson # 6099 in the files as per David's posting.

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Getting a little closer, a handwritten letter from the Captain of the Tucson Police Dept, Frank Eyman, indicating he found $134,000, handcuffs, black jack, 2 Colt 45s and 2- Machine guns , from the Dilllinger gang member, Harry Pierpont.

No #s on the Thompsons.

Also the money bag from the Racine bank robbery where the 1928 Navy Overstamp was taken.

A little background on the three Thompsons taken & some cool pictures.

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Tucson Thompsons recovered from the Dillinger gang- Little bit of a mystery here, the photo of the arresting officers ( 1934) show 4 Thompsons on display with the vests, Winchester 07s, 45 autos. The list of items from the police report only lists 3 Thompsons.

 

# 5878, # 8946- Both on display at the Tucson PD headquarters , currently I believe.

# 3363 the Racine gun returned to Racine.

???? on the 4th.

Looking for the Lima, Ohio Thompson # 6099 in the files as per David's posting.

 

Found the FBI files on the Lima, Ohio escape & # 6099. There does not appear to be any Thompson taken ( # 6099 ) ??? The bandits( Dillinger & co) took two pistols, a 38 Police Special nickel plated # 55761-N stamped on the side " property of Allen County Sheriff" and a 38 Colt Detective Special, blued steel, 2" barrel, # 410172-A-1 . This gun belonged to the Sheriff that was killed, other to Deputy Sheriff Sharpe

So it appears the Dillinger Thompson from Lima, #6099 is out of the loop. Wonder where Gordon got that information ?

 

Addendium: he probably got the info from the LIMA PD, the FBI reports no Thompson, but #6099 is alive and well in Lima. Opps.

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Little update here: I've got my buddy Larry Wack helping on this now, I was stalled . Lot of my reference stuff is in DC now. Larry is retired FBI and knows his stuff, so we are joined forces for this. Larry has a wonderful web site, Faded Glory: Dusty Roads of an FBI Era.

Right now looking at the mystery 4th Thompson at the Tucson arrest. It has dissapeared. Files keep coming up three with #s.??

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Tucson Thompsons, Dunrite Vests, Lebman converted 351s to full auto, 45, 38 Super and the 38 found in gang member Pierpont's sock and arresting officers, Jan, 1934.

Third Thompson in is probably ( 99.99999% ) the Racine Thompson , 1921/28 Navy overstamp # 3363 picked up at the bank robbery with no rear stock, brought to the bank that way by the Racine PD.

Anybody want to step up and ID the lever action guns, go for it- I have no idea.

 

OCM

001 (3).jpg

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Sandy,

 

You and Larry make a first class team.

Tell Larry that his help on the case was very helpful.

 

Keep it coming,

Darryl

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Thanks-

Can anyone tell if that's a C drum on the third Thompson from the left, one with no butt stock ? Also, how about the Colt pistols, something that says one is a 45 and other a 38 Super. I see any difference.

 

Appreciate the detective work.

 

Sandy

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Lots & lots of interesting stuff on this subject. Guns don't match, #s don't match, books don't match, lists don't match, physically the guns don't match, guns are missing, claims are made..... One of you gentlemen, may have a $$$ Dillinger gun?

 

Got FBI Larry Wack on it, Ern Hudson & Butch Smith ( retired law enforcement) on it ( they've seen , interviewed & shot about any gangster Thompson out there ) Helmer, when his computer is running and me.

 

One thing for sure, Dillinger is holding # 7387 that he took at his escape from the Crown Point jail , on March 3rd, 1934. This photo was taken April 7, 1934 at an open family picnic at the family farm in Moorseville, IN.

 

20,000 police looking for him & he's right there at home for two days, taking pictures with his Thompson & the fake wood pistol he used to escape with, at the side of the farm at about 2 in the afternoon.

 

#7387 stayed with him, for another 4 months, till he was nailed in front of the Biograph in Chicago . The Lady in Red had her son pitch it in Lake Michigan, with vests & stuff. Kids found it while wading, called the cops, Feds took it, finally returned to Porter County, Indiana folks & it's there if you want to see it. Call first I guess .

 

 

 

 

as/B4 ( a Dillinger signature )

 

OCM

april.jpg

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Progression of Thompson # 7387.

After Dillinger's arrest in Tucson, Jan 25, 1934, he was flown to Chicago, then locked up in the " escape proof " Lake County Jail, Crown Point, Indiana. After a couple months he decided to leave and broke out of jail using the fake wooded pistol. March 3, 1934.

On the way out, he grabbed a couple Thompsons, # 7387 & # 6444. # 7387 was on loan to the jail from the the Sheriff of Porter County, next county over.

28 days later, March 31, 1934, he was found living in a Apartment in St Paul with girlfriend ( moll ) Billie Frechette. When the coppers knocked on the door, it was answered with a couple blasts from # 7387. Off they went in a 1933 Essex Terraplane 8, which I used to own.

A week later, April 7, 1934, Dillinger spends two days at the family farm in Mooresville, Indiana. Why there enjoying a picnic, he has his picture taken with # 7387 & the wooden pistol used to escape the Lake County Jail.

23 days later, April 23, 1934, Dillinger is on vacation way up in Northern Wisconsin , staying at the Little Bohemia Lodge, Mercer, Wisconsin. Couple freinds are with him, names like Baby Face Nelson.

The FBI pulls a raid on the lodge and a huge machine gun battle begins. Dillinger grabs # 7387 and hauls out the back door, FBI miss him, he heads back to Chicago in a stolen car. Then takes a rest

June 30, 1934, Dillinger robs the South Bend, Indiana bank, tons of gun fire, ( probably ) using # 7387 and escapes.

 

July 22, 1934, Dillinger is stopped for good, in Chicago, with the Lady in Red, Anna Sage. Immediately after Dillinger is killed, she has # 7387 tossed in Lake Michigan. Some kids swimming, find the gun and it's turned over to the FBI.

# 7387 is finally returned back home where this all began with Dillinger first borrowing it, the Lake County Jail

 

I'm including photo journal of the Thompson's history here. All these are from 1934 with the exception of historian Butch Smith holding it a couple years ago.

Lake County Jail, St Paul apartments, Family gathering, Lake Michigan find.

 

I received a bunch of photos from retired law officers, Ern Hudson & Butch Smith this morning, showing the various Dillinger Thompsons they have " interviewed " through the years. They were kind enough to say OK show these to the group.

 

Sandy

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I should add, # 7387 is now returned to the Porter County Sheriff, where it was loaned out to the Lake County Jail in 34 to help protect Mr. Dillinger.

As far as I know, it's a 1921 AC.

 

OCM

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# 6444, 1921A. This is the second Thompson taken by Dillinger, at the escape from the Lake County Jail, March 3, 1934. Dillinger and fellow inmate Herbert Youngblood, busted out on Saturday morning about 9 AM. taking # 7387 & this one, # 6444.

They stole the Sheriff's 1933 Ford and slowly drove out of town, heading for Chicago.

At some point, Youngblood was let off, maybe in Chicago, and Dillinger met up with his girlfriend again. She had already purchased the 1933 Essex Terraplane 8 for him, I'm positive this was all planned. They left the Sheriff's car in Chicago and in the Essex, off to St Paul and the next shoot-out with # 7387 & # 6444 in the back seat. ( posting # 14 above ) .

 

This Thompson, # 6444, was left with another gang member, Eddie Green there in St Paul.

 

Not as spectatular as # 7287's career, # 6444 was picked up at Eddie Green's house after yet another shooting, where Green eventually dies from wounds.

 

# 6444, I believe was then in the possession of the FBI for many years, however it's now been returned to the Lake County Jail, Crown Point, Indiana.

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# 3363, 1928 Navy Overstamp.

November 20, 1933: The Dillinger gang shows up in Racine, Wisconsin about 2:30 in the afternoon in a 1933 Buick Series 90, 7 passenger Sedan, huge car with jump seats in the rear. They enter the American Bank & Trust Company with intentions of robbing it. During the robbery, officer Wilbur Hansen shows up from the PD with # 3363, butt stock removed and enters the bank. He is shot by gang member Fat Charley Makley and drops the Thompson. Makley picks up the gun. The gang leaves, with money & Thompson , two hostages and heads back to Chicago.

January, 25, 1934 the gang is arrested in Tucson, AZ. One of the guns recovered in #3363.

The gun is returned back to the Racine PD and is on display there today.

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We now have 4 people working on solving the Dillinger guns list and history, including Sheriff Ernie Hudson, Deputy Sheriff Butch Smith, Agent Larry Wack FBI, William J Helmer author/historian and myself Sandy Jones retired Brewmaster/historian.

 

These guys are the best of the best . Everyone here has been written up in On The Spot at one time or the other-

 

On a new hunt this week , this is just a general update. This has turned out to be a monster undertaking. Tons of hours, phone calls & emails.

 

Fun as hell tho.

 

OCM

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  • 2 weeks later...

# 6099, 1921 AC. Allan County Sheriff Dept

 

( thanks to Larry Wack, Sheriff Ernie Hudson, Deputy Sheriff Butch Smith & the Lima Sgt. Tim Garlock for this )

It's taken over a month to glean the information on this Thompson. A lot of information has been lost. i.e. dissapearing files. What is left is very strong evidence on the history of this Thompson. Tons of emails, phone calls & FBI records shearch. I personally believe this to be the correct information, but may not be the final chapter- Gordon lists this Thompson as being with the Allan County Sheriff, which is correct, it is there.

 

Information we got from the Lima County Sheriff's office was this Thompson was stolen at the escape of John Dillinger October 14, 1933. Three gang member broke Dillinger out of the Lima jail, killing the Sheriff ( Sarber ) for no reason, to make the escape.

In the process 4 Pistols were taken and Thompson # 6099 as the gang was leaving. The FBI lists two of the pistols taken from the Sheriff's desk.

 

March 25, 1934 the Dillinger gang was arrested in Tucson. Gang member Harry Pierpont had Sheriff Sarber's pistol in a ankle holster when caught. This and the rest of the Lima weapons were returned to Allen County to be used in the Murder trial as evidence.

All gang member were convected of murder in Lima with the exception of Dillinger who went to the Crown Point jail and later escaped taking # 7387 & #6444 ( see above posts )

 

# 6099 now resides in the Allen County Sheriff's display there in Lima, with the pistols.

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# 6315 & # 6141. Both appear to be 1921 AC.

 

April, 23, 1934 The Dillinger gang has taken a vacation in the Northwoods of Wisconsin, the Little Bohemia Lodge , Manitowish Waters, Wisconsin.

( this is also an area the Capone's would vacation out of Chicago ).

The gang included Baby Face Nelson, who was in the possession of a HS Lebman Colt 38 Super mini-submachine gun.

The FBI flew into Rhinelander, Wisconsin, drove up to the Lodge and started a battle royale in the early evening. Dillinger escaped with # 7387 ( see Post # 14) and # 6315 & 6141 were left behind.

Both Thompsons were taken by the FBI, one is listed in the Smithsonian collection, other with the FBI in Tampa , Florida.

(6141 is not with the FBI in Tampa, at this time unknown, Larry contacted them, just got the reply)

 

Nelson killed a couple guys with the Colt Mini and took it with him while escaping.

 

After the battle, the owner Emil Wanekta & John Dillinger's father set up a museum with the belongings left behind. They turned Baby Face Nelson's cabin into a museum.

The Lodge is still there, a wonderful place eat & have a couple cold ones. I've been there numerous times The old Collection is still there in parts.

 

OCM

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According to Gordon's Colt Thompson Serial Number book, the Dillinger related TSMG's are as follows:

 

7387 and 6444 (Crown Point, IN - Stolen 3/3/34)

6099 (Allen County, Lima, Ohio - First TSMG stolen 10/12/33)

2689 (Auburn, IN - Stolen 10/14/33)

3170 and 7007 (Peru, IN) (According to Gordon, 7007 was not stolen - It was laying on a workbench disassembled when 3170 was stolen)

3363 and 7336 (Racine, WI - 3363 stolen 11/20/33, 7336 used by Dept.)

6315 and 6141 (Left behind at New Bohemia Lodge - Apparently stolen from company shipments)

8355 (FBI Special Agent Baum used at New Bohemia Lodge)

 

I think that's all of them, based on about a 10 minute look at Gordon's Dillinger section in his book.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

Just a minor thing, the Peru Gun is # 7117 . # 7007 is in Deadwood. We had called Deadwood about a Dillinger Thompson, WHAT ? Haaaaahhhaa.

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We are stalled right now with 4 guns missing. We'll get er- Got two Sheriffs, the FBI and two Dillinger historians on this case.

 

-

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#8946, 1921 AC . Auburn, Indiana Police Dept.

 

Two days after the escape of the Lima, Ohio jail and the killing of the Sheriff there, The Dillinger group strikes again, this time Auburn, Indiana Police Department, October 14, 1933.

So many guns were taken they had to make two trips to the car, including #8946 Thompson.

Attachment here is the list of weapons taken from the PD. ( thanks to Larry Wack, FBI retired ) Notice the odd Serial number listed for the Thompson-

 

#8946 was recovered at the Tucson arrest , Jan 25,1934. This was one of the 4 Thompsons recovered. #8946 went on display in the Tucson PD history case. It later was loaned to the FBI for display at the DC headquarters. It is currectly in the process of being returned back to the Auburn Police Dept.

 

Thanks to Lori Hyde for doing a lot of research with us on this one.

 

OCM

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# 5878, 1921 AC & # 7117 1921 AC, Peru, Indiana Police Dept

 

October 21, 1933, 7 days after robbing the Auburn, Indiana police station the Dillinger gang hits again, this time the Peru, Indiana Police Station.

This time 1/2 dozen bullet-proof vests, 2- sawed off shotguns, 4 38 Police Specials, 2 Winchester 30-30s, 3 police badges, a huge ammount of ammunition and ONE Thompson, # 5878. The other Thompson # 7117 was in the other room taken apart.

The group left in what an eyewitness said was a Hudson but more then likely a favorite Dillinger car the 1933 Essex Terraplane 8.

Indiana was in hysteria !

 

#5878 was recovered at the Tucson arrest, Jan, 25, 1934. It is currectly on display at the Tucson Police Department.

 

 

 

#7117 is on display at the Peru Police Department.

 

 

NOTE : Two (2) days later, October 23, 1933 the gang robbed the Greencastle , Indiana bank of over $21,000.00 . They were wearing the Dunrite bullet-proof vests from the previous days robbery of the police station. The vests were recovered in Chicago sometime later at a hideout . I owned one of the vests, shown here.

#5878 was probably also used at the robbery.

 

OCM

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sheriff Hudson found another one today- Damn I thought we were done. # 7731.

 

Keep you posted.

 

OCM

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