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C&R Status Question


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Would a gun (say a Colt 1921 Thompson) that was not registered during the 1968 Amnesty but later on registered as being "built" by a company licensed to manufacture machine guns before the 1986 ban,still be a C&R transferable gun.It is still listed in the model block as a Colt 1921 but the manufacturer is listed as the "builder".

I am told there are a number of NFA guns that made it into the registry this way.

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No, sorry to say. Any MG remanufactured after the end of the '68 Amnesty had to be "destroyed" first, which at the time required the receiver to be sawed in half. When rebuilt by welding the receiver back together or making a new receiver, the MG was considered to be newly manufactured. So, no longer C+R. Any registered remanufactured MG, if it does not have a new made receiver, will have evidence of the receiver having been welded. Often an unregistered MG would be registered as a " reactivation" by a less-than-honest 07/02 NFA manufacturer to make a few more bucks. Couple major problems with that: the F2 submitted to ATF, which would be the initial registration for the serial number and for the "reactivation" and would be dated after the end of the Amnesty; more important, there is no record of the receiver registration of the MG as a registered DEWAT submitted prior to the end of the Amnesty. These guns show up quite frequently and are contraband, although ATF would have no luck in tracking them down without actually inspecting the MG for a weld, checking the date of original registration and looking in the NFRTR for the original registration dated before the end of the Amnesty. Edited by Black River Militaria CII
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I can understand that such a gun lost it's C&R status, but since all West Hurley guns have been granted C&R status, couldn't any transferableThompson potentially be C&R? I realize it would require specific approval from ATF, but the way I read the guidelines, it is possible.

I have not done it myself and stand ready to be corrected.

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WH guns have been granted C+R status, but only applies to them. Your remanufactured gun will have to pass the 50 years since date of registration to qualify. Only way it will happen. Date of registration, if done correctly will approximate the date of manufacture as noted on the original registration by an F2 or by an individual F1 manufacture.
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By regulation the manufacturer of a remanufactured MG was required to stamp, etch, engrave his ID on the receiver. Not uncommon that this info was hidden or missing. I've had a surprising number of reman MGs in mthr hsop that have had the info hidden somewhere and also missing altogether. If it isn't or visible on the exterior of the receiver, disassemble it and see if it is hidden. Who is listed on the form? Edited by Black River Militaria CII
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Are there not other methods for destroying and remanufacturing?

 

For example, would welding pices of steel to a Thompson receiver render it a non-gun, then removal of the added pieces be making a new gun?

 

I recall one well known dealer having a Dutch AR10 lower receiver with it sear hole filled in. He claimed that the atf was consulted and he was able to re-drill the sear hole thereby re-manufacturing the MG.

 

So does the thing have to be sawn first or are there other means? Reason I ask is because these guys that did the reman are mostly dead. Who is to know just how the reman was done?

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Between Dec 2, 1968 and May 19, 1986, the legal method of rendering an unregistered MG into a "non-firearm" was to cut the receiver in half, usually with a saw, and rarely by any other means. Sawing was the least destructive in regard to metal removed. Or removing the "controlled" part, such as a sideplate, instead of cutting the sideplate or receiver box in half. The rules for destruction of an unregistered MG were quite simple, basically just cutting the receiver in half or removing a sideplate and or making a new receiver or controlled part.

The receiver could be welded back together and finnished out into a functional receiver. A new "controlled" part could be manufactured, a receiver, a sideplate, instead of welding the cut "controlled" part. Receivers were cut in various places to make it easier to weld them together again. Many were not cut, but just stamped with the maker's ID and a new serial if desired and then registered.

On May 19, 1986 the law changed and no further MGs could be registered for private possession, period. So, after that date it didn't matter how a receiver was destroyed since, generally speaking, it could not be used to build a transferable MG. Post-May sales samples we re legal to build, but are highly restricted.

Other ways to render an unregistered MG a "non-firearm" we're used and issues developed with ATF about what constituted an "MG" over the years until May 19.

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Bill Fleming is well known for his development and manufacture of auto sears for converting H&K semi-auto firearms and his manufacture of full-auto examples of many different H&K products in the early 1980s. As an 07/02 he also remanufactured unregistered MGs into registered transferables. It is possible he might have reman'd some MGs on form 1s before he went into business. You can do a freedom of information act request and get copies of all paperwork in the NFRTR archive on the serial number of your gun. All personal information is redacted on the copies you receive but a lot of information can be gleaned from the record. Date and form of original registration is worth knowing and any other transfers and documents pertaining to the gun as well.
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