Jump to content


Photo

What does the "S" stamp stand for?

.45 Colt cartridges

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Caponeophile

Caponeophile

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 18 posts

Posted 24 January 2016 - 12:37 PM

I've been searching and getting different answers. Anyone in the know care to take a stab at what this could mean. I was told smokeless but another ammo expert and even Bill Helmer told me that it wasn't for smokeless because smokeless was invented at the turn of the century and wouldn't need any special marking for them. Photos from the William Helmer collection.

 

223734400.jpg

 

223258c20.jpg

 

223a39a50.jpg

 


  • 0

#2 dalbert

dalbert

    Website Owner

  • Admin
  • 4847 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 24 January 2016 - 01:43 PM

Mario,

 

The pictures didn't load correctly.  Do you have links?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


  • 0

#3 Caponeophile

Caponeophile

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 18 posts

Posted 24 January 2016 - 01:55 PM

Thank-you David,

 

how about now? Do they work?

 

 

Mario,

 

The pictures didn't load correctly.  Do you have links?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


  • 0

#4 ron_brock

ron_brock

    Respected Member

  • Moderator
  • 1982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wolverine State

Posted 24 January 2016 - 02:38 PM

I think it silver gliding, but I could be wrong. Not that they are made of silver, but just a term used. I need to check if it's listed in my catalog.

Ron
  • 0

#5 dalbert

dalbert

    Website Owner

  • Admin
  • 4847 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 24 January 2016 - 03:07 PM

Thank-you David,

 

how about now? Do they work?

 

 

Mario,

 

The pictures didn't load correctly.  Do you have links?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

Mario,

 

Yes, they are now loading.  I've forgotten the exact meaning of the "S," but the bullets have a cupro-nickel covering.  The SVDM bullets were of this type and marking.  There are other boxes of the same type of ammunition that do not has the "S" marking.  I believe this was discussed at some point here, maybe 8-10 years ago, and I have forgotten the exact details.  I need to see if my original, 1st edition copy of Goddard's forensic journal (a personal copy of his) mentions the details of the marking.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


  • 0

#6 Caponeophile

Caponeophile

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 18 posts

Posted 24 January 2016 - 10:56 PM

Thank-you David and Ron,

 

                                               


Edited by Caponeophile, 29 January 2016 - 11:46 AM.

  • 0

#7 Caponeophile

Caponeophile

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 18 posts

Posted 29 January 2016 - 11:46 AM

                                              

I'm now satisfied with what I have come up with. Much speculation has been made over the years about the what the "S" signifies. Many claim it meant smokeless or staynless. Neither one makes any sense because smokeless was invented at the turn of the century. There was no need to make a special stamp on live rounds when smokeless rounds were by now the norm and was printed on the ammo boxes. Another claim such as Staynless was a particular branding by Winchester for Winchester ammo and was not associated with U.S. Cartridge Co. ammo, even though the company that owned Winchester by this time owned U.S. Cartridge Co. Staynless is also not feasible because the were many other different rounds made by U.S. Cartridge Co. that had the S stamp and were made of copper and other metals.  
1x1.gif
An S die could have just been chosen at random to do the year long control sample run or it could have meant just that, Sample? How about S for Sporting ammo? (Non military). All good theories, but from all the evidence I have looked at and from Goddard's own mouth is the simple answer that the S stamped on these bullets were merely a manufacturer's mark representing the U.S. Cartridge Co.
1x1.gif

By the end of 1926, much of the U.S. Cartridge Co's ammo manufacturing machinery left Lowell Massachusetts and was moved to New Haven, Connecticut at the Winchester plant.


  • 0

#8 emmagee1917

emmagee1917

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yuma , Arizona
  • Interests:All USGI WW2 firearms and acc.

Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:13 PM

I just always thought it was to denote which plant made the ammo after they opened thier second plant in South Lowell . You know , in case a problem arose .

Chris


  • 0

#9 Caponeophile

Caponeophile

    New Member

  • Regular Group
  • 18 posts

Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:20 PM

I just always thought it was to denote which plant made the ammo after they opened thier second plant in South Lowell . You know , in case a problem arose .

Chris

Not the case since the S batch that was used in the St. Valentine Massacre was produced between July 1927 to July 1928 at the Winchester plant in New Haven, Connecticut.


  • 0

#10 emmagee1917

emmagee1917

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yuma , Arizona
  • Interests:All USGI WW2 firearms and acc.

Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:05 PM

I understand that , but I don't think they had some flunky on the payroll sitting on a stool at a bench with a hand stamp and a hammer stamping those little "S"s. It was prob'ly done by machine somewhere along the line . Were not the New Haven line composed of machines from both Lowell plants ? I'm just guessing at a reason USCC started doing it in the first place , not who stopped it or when. Oft times we find someone doing something just because it had " always " been done that way , even if the true reason ended long ago.

Chris


  • 0

#11 gonzo25mm

gonzo25mm

    Member

  • Regular Group
  • 33 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Charleston, S.C.

Posted 06 April 2016 - 08:59 PM

It might stand for Savage. I bought a parts kit form IMA-USA, the barrel was stamped Savage. This is what I have been told,,,Hope its true.


  • 0