M1 For Sale by Ruben

[buzz]

 

brucea4,

 

The reason that the prices are going up is because the supply is fixed and demand keeps increasing.

 

Nothing more and nothing less. It's not greed, it's free trade.

 

 

All those millions of baby boomers are out there at their peak earning power, kids done with college, house paid for, and nothing to spend their money on but all the toys they always wanted.

 

Suppose a guy is a dentist and his wife is a lawyer, between the two of them they are pulling down $350k a year. What does he care if a Thompson costs $27,000 instead of $26,000?

 

 

Plus there are youtube videos of people shooting MGs that have gotten MILLIONS of views. That's 24/7 advertising for MG ownership.

 

 

Balanced against all that is a tiny supply of MGs, of which only a handful go on sale every year. Sometimes there is not one single M1A1 Thompson for sale in the whole USA.

 

 

AND

 

The more valuable these guns get, the more they will be owned by hardcore collectors than shooters. Hardcore collectors form an emotional bond with their collections, they see guns as precious and irreplaceable. That makes the supply dry up even more as the collectors hoard them until they die.

 

 

It would not surprise me to see these pre-45 Thompson selling for $100k+ someday.

There is a movement to repeal the 1986 ban.

Over at FAL Files there is mention of a petition.

I mentioned that to some that have already sunk huge funds into machine guns this is not so good.

Then the mob tarred and feathered me mentioning "Freedom". A freedom they already have just wont step up to the plate for.

Apparently dissenting opinion ( Freedom of speech) is not welcome over there.

 

 

Are you surprised that other gun owners care more about their gun collection than they care about your investments?

 

The 1986 law amounts to a ban for most people.

 

There are not enough MGs for everyone who wants one. That's literally why the prices are so high.

 

Freedom should not require you to "step up" and be one of the very few people who can afford to spend $25,000 on a 40 year old $800 M16.

 

 

Don't expect too much sympathy from other gun owners if you mention your investment value when talking about the 1986 law.

 

That's like telling people that if they want free speech, they should be willing to step up and buy a $10,000 free speech permit.

 

 

That having been said, the 1986 ban will never be repealed.

 

Repeal will never have support from the general public, so the politicians will never push for it.

[buzz]

So anyway, let's find Shadowman an M1.

 

I bought my m1a1 just for the heck of it, because the price was excellent.

 

Turned out to be probably my most favorite gun that I've ever owned.

[brucea4]

brucea4

 

You described the gun owners as "greedy" and the auction houses as "thieving".

 

You don't seem to grasp the voluntary nature of hobby gun collecting.

 

The auction house "deserves" whatever fee their customers voluntarily pay them.

 

The prices you see in that auction are called "free trade", not greed.

 

Free trade is good stuff, it built the whole world.

 

OOH, I don't " grasp "....that must be the problem....

[huggytree]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/637616519

 

here;s an option from frank...says $22k and he will end the auction...use the remaining $4k saved and buy his $5,900 Mac 10

Edited April 20, 2017 by huggytree

[buzz]

You notice how frank says "according to the ATF paper work, auto ord Bridgeport conn is the maker"

 

His ads often have an innocent looking phrase like that, but something about it makes you wonder why it's actually in the ad.

 

It would be a good idea to make sure that gun is not a reweld or a knock-off before buying.

Edited April 20, 2017 by buzz

[buzz]

OP, are you stuck on an M1 ?

 

Or are looking for an M1A1 also?

 

You can use an M1 bolt in an M1A1 if you like. No real need to, but it will work perfectly.

[huggytree]

Frank gives you 3 days to inspect

 

Your covered

 

I'm bidding on one of his auctions right now. He has it mismarked as to what it actually is. So be wary of this

 

He has a large operation and the people don't always get the details right. In my case it may be a very good deal because of it

Edited April 20, 2017 by huggytree

[shadowman]

 

You notice how frank says "according to the ATF paper work, auto ord Bridgeport conn is the maker"

His ads often have an innocent looking phrase like that, but something about it makes you wonder why it's actually in the ad.

So yeah, I've purchased a couple of MG's from "Frank". There's usually a kink of some sort with him (e.g.,

once he sent my gun to the wrong dealer in the wrong state); however, I've never gotten ripped-off and in my

transactions I have to say he's eventually delivered what his ad said he would.

Almost all of his Gunbroker ads now seem to have the "according to the ATF paperwork" disclaimer, and I honestly think

that's just for liability purposes on his part... many of his transactions are brokered, and he may have never even

seen what he's selling... with the possibility of Re-Welds, Re-Wats, Re-Activations, etc., etc., just listing what the

Federal paperwork says likely relieves him from liability, to some degree. (and sometimes, it might even be argued that

"the gun was registered improperly" but he has no control over something that happened, at a minimum, 30+ years

ago). Frank's just in it to make what $$$'s he can... he's not going to X-Ray a receiver, nor hire a legal team to investigate

how a particular gun was registered... so long as it's a documented legal/transferrable gun, I suspect his interest

begins and ends there.

More generally addressing Frank & preceding comments about the Auction Houses being "rip offs"... seems to me,

it's the nature of the hobby in 2017 (and, for some years now). You want to play, you $pay... or go find another gun

(and that's been the story of my hunt for an M1/M1A1 Thompson, thus far). Like most, I wish there was a local stocking dealer

& I could "get an M16 for just $39.00 more than the AR15 version of the same gun". Etc. This is IMO fantasy... and, I'll

believe there might be a *real* chance of the Hughes amendment being repealed, if the effort to remove suppressors

from the purview of the NFA is successful. Just my $0.02.

 

OP, are you stuck on an M1? Or are looking for an M1A1 also?

Just looking for an example of the "dedicted military variant" of the Thompson, so either M1 or M1A1 would work at this point...

I have an M1928A1 already. I'll probably shoot it a little, but primarily interested in the historical / collecting aspects of

the gun. And If I were to consider purchasing a 3rd, I think an original Colt 21AC would be next.

[buzz]

Please don't mix up my comment about Frank's ads with the other poster's not-so-very-logical comments about "greedy sellers" and "thieving auctions."

 

Deliberately ambiguous advertising has nothing to do with the free market pricing of collector items or paying an auction house for their honest services.

 

Those are three completely different topics.

 

I've been reading Franks ads for a long enough time to have made the personal decision to never buy from him under any circumstances. You of course are free to do as you please.

 

As far as the current pricing of the gun collector market and auction fees goes, they both fall under the heading of "free market capitalism", which I am in favor of.

[huggytree]

Frank gives you 3 days to inspect....if you find something wrong send it back..or have it fixed...ive never read a post where he didnt make it right....

 

i have bought from him and will do so again.....some good deals occasionally come from him....more so than any other dealer....good deals are rare from the other big 2, but do happen occasionally

[Normal1959]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/637616519

 

here;s an option from frank...says $22k and he will end the auction...use the remaining $4k saved and buy his $5,900 Mac 10

 

He would certainly win, worst pictures ever posted.

Eric

[DZelenka]

Please don't mix up my comment about Frank's ads with the other poster's not-so-very-logical comments about "greedy sellers" and "thieving auctions."

 

Deliberately ambiguous advertising has nothing to do with the free market pricing of collector items or paying an auction house for their honest services.

 

Those are three completely different topics.

 

I've been reading Franks ads for a long enough time to have made the personal decision to never buy from him under any circumstances. You of course are free to do as you please.

 

As far as the current pricing of the gun collector market and auction fees goes, they both fall under the heading of "free market capitalism", which I am in favor of.

Frank's ads don't provide any information and rarely have good pictures.

[huggytree]

other than Ruben who has good pictures?????

 

ask Frank for more pics....1/2 the time you will get them...1/2 the time you wont......ill bet his gun sells as there arent many real ww2 thompsons for $22k

[brucea4]

Please don't mix up my comment about Frank's ads with the other poster's not-so-very-logical comments about "greedy sellers" and "thieving auctions."

 

Deliberately ambiguous advertising has nothing to do with the free market pricing of collector items or paying an auction house for their honest services.

 

Those are three completely different topics.

 

I've been reading Franks ads for a long enough time to have made the personal decision to never buy from him under any circumstances. You of course are free to do as you please.

 

As far as the current pricing of the gun collector market and auction fees goes, they both fall under the heading of "free market capitalism", which I am in favor of.

 

 

My comments are very logical. The fact you don't grasp them is your problem!

[dalbert]

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/637616519

 

here;s an option from frank...says $22k and he will end the auction...use the remaining $4k saved and buy his $5,900 Mac 10

 

He would certainly win, worst pictures ever posted.

Eric

 

I agree. I don't know how anyone would consider spending $22K on a Thompson that is being sold using photos like this. If you have questions about it, all you have to do is filter every question through a middleman who hasn't seen the gun, either. Maybe it's a steal...maybe it's a reweld. I guess the buyer will find out when they receive it in a year. But, I guess you have 3 days to decide, once you receive it. Maybe that helps....a little bit.

 

Just some hypothetical questions on this type of transaction...

 

Does Frank absorb the cost of a return, or does the seller wait until the transfer goes though, and the 3 days have passed for the buyer to inspect before they get paid by Frank? (A total of 8-12 months for the seller to get paid?)

 

If the seller is paid immediately by Frank, and you want to return the item, do you have to wait until the 3rd party seller returns your money? What if they spent it on surgery, or a Camaro? Is it sent by the seller directly, or through/by Frank? How long would you have to wait to get your money back? What if the MG market takes a dive? Will that affect the refund timing?

 

Is the firearm insured while waiting for the transfer to clear?

 

Is the firearm insured for damage and/or loss while being transported to the buyer, or to his/her dealer?

 

In a transaction that includes accessories, if the extras turn out to be something less than advertised by the third party owner, is the only recourse to return the entire package?

 

There's a lot of faith involved in an NFA transaction. This kind of transaction would make me nervous. I guess it doesn't produce the same apprehension in some others, but what happens if a transaction goes very wrong?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[huggytree]

your dealer will receive it in 3 months....so its not a year....i agree about his pics on this one......when i bought my Thompson i made the guy completely dissemble it(other than the parts inside the lower) so i could see what was correct for the gun and what was not.....i think i had 20 pictures+...every single part was pictured

 

looking at his GB rating...he has 155 A+ ratings in the past 12 months, 1 neutral, 2 F's

 

if you own a business you know its hard to please 99% of your customers......Frank has done it...

Edited April 21, 2017 by huggytree

[johnsonlmg41]

Dalbert....that is funny stuff!

Is it insured.....absolutely not since Frank has never touched it, seen it, nor verified the paperwork since no transfer has taken place.

The money is long gone...paid to the actual owner possibly months ago. Can you get it back if there is a problem...possible, but not fast and maybe not at all.

3 day return policy.....pipe dream, you'd have to cancel the transfer/transfers, eat the transfer tax/taxes shipping, etc since as we've read, Frank is only a "broker" and doesn't have any stake in the actual item. He may help you out, others have said no.

 

I wouldn't receive this gun in 3 months since I'd take it direct, more like 10 months and if the actual seller has it on a form 4 even to a dealer in your state it's at least 4-5 months (I've been waiting 4+ currently on some like this). I've had a deal or two "not go as planned" and within 2 weeks the money was gone. I have been fortunate to recover every dime on every transaction to date, but some have taken a couple years and a lot of patience (some guys take a while to be released!!).

Many guns end up at auction or at brokers for many reasons.....not all good.

 

I had a seller reneg on accessories since the gun went up in value......and I had gotten toooooo good of a deal already I was told. At that point I was just happy to get the gun and go. RIA told me I would get the correct magazines that went with my gun.....guess what RIA did not come through as they said. Even the "big price" dealer has had issues. HTH

[Junkhunter]

On the subject of Franks bad pictures I'd guess most of these are the consigners pics before the guns transfer.

[TSMGguy]

I traveled to have a look at every class III I ever seriously considered purchasing, and was always glad I did. There were good reasons for passing on the few I looked at but didn't buy. Most sellers were happy to accept a small refundable deposit to hold a piece pending inspection.

 

The only gun I bought sight unseen was one of the new Uzis from Vector Arms, back when 3,000 or so of them came onto the market and were available directly from the manufacturer. It was a bargain at $2,750:

 

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2867

Edited April 21, 2017 by TSMGguy

[Merry Ploughboy]

other than Ruben who has good pictures?????

 

For one, Autoweapons.com , for another onlythebestfirearms.com -- notice anything in common?

[Black River Militaria CII]

Attn: johnsonlmg41; I sent a message to you on this site.....BRMCII

[buzz]

David,

 

I read a quote once that makes a ton of sense, I never forgot it:

 

"There is no contract that can take the place of an honest agreement between two honest men."

 

I know someone that had an HVAC contractor walk off with $20,000. She sued the contractor and won, and ten years later has yet to see a penny.

 

All the promises and contracts in the world don't mean a thing if the other guy is dishonest.

 

 

That's just a general comment about this weird process of buying NFA guns, not saying anyone is dishonest.

Edited April 21, 2017 by buzz

[lightguy]

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/637616519

 

here;s an option from frank...says $22k and he will end the auction...use the remaining $4k saved and buy his $5,900 Mac 10

 

He would certainly win, worst pictures ever posted.

Eric

 

I agree. I don't know how anyone would consider spending $22K on a Thompson that is being sold using photos like this. If you have questions about it, all you have to do is filter every question through a middleman who hasn't seen the gun, either. Maybe it's a steal...maybe it's a reweld. I guess the buyer will find out when they receive it in a year. But, I guess you have 3 days to decide, once you receive it. Maybe that helps....a little bit.

 

Just some hypothetical questions on this type of transaction...

 

Does Frank absorb the cost of a return, or does the seller wait until the transfer goes though, and the 3 days have passed for the buyer to inspect before they get paid by Frank? (A total of 8-12 months for the seller to get paid?)

 

If the seller is paid immediately by Frank, and you want to return the item, do you have to wait until the 3rd party seller returns your money? What if they spent it on surgery, or a Camaro? Is it sent by the seller directly, or through/by Frank? How long would you have to wait to get your money back? What if the MG market takes a dive? Will that affect the refund timing?

 

Is the firearm insured while waiting for the transfer to clear?

 

Is the firearm insured for damage and/or loss while being transported to the buyer, or to his/her dealer?

 

In a transaction that includes accessories, if the extras turn out to be something less than advertised by the third party owner, is the only recourse to return the entire package?

 

There's a lot of faith involved in an NFA transaction. This kind of transaction would make me nervous. I guess it doesn't produce the same apprehension in some others, but what happens if a transaction goes very wrong?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

You could say that about ANY firearm bought without personal inspection.

I have bought 3 guns from Frank.

1 in my paws and two in batfe jail.

The one I bought was supposed to be a COLT 9MM SBR.

That's what the ad said but I followed up with a specific question; "Is this a COLT or a Colt conversion ?"

"COLT"

One year later I go to file final paperwork and its a Colt conversion.

So I call them.

"What do you need to make it right ?"

I mention a largish discount (doesn't hurt to ask right ?).

"Done".

 

That level of customer satisfaction deserves more business IMO.

So I bought two MG's based on the photos they could provide and the promise; "You will be happy".

 

Frank sells guns all day everyday.

He is a dealer who deals guns he buys. Everything must be sold.

He is not a connoisseur.

Other dealers stock inventory waiting months and years for "The Right Guy".

IMO Frank is going to dominate the market in short time.

[lightguy]

PS Shadowman I sent you an email link to Frank's Bridgeport.

Ask for better pics and 50/50.

Ask if its a reweld or dewat.

Get it in writing... THEN....

I would (and DID buy two other of his Bridgeport's) buy that gun RIGHT NOW.

Edited April 22, 2017 by lightguy

[fifthmdec]

In my experience, most WWII era TSMGs were deactivated at one time or another. We have purchased many WWII era C&R Submachine guns and the majority of them were reactivated.

 

Every barrel was replaced, some had the bolts replace as the minimum required steel welds were in the barrel and the barrel welded to the receiver. Some had the firing pin ground down on a fixed pin bolt.

 

Unless you get a PD, correctional facility or other LE agency TSMG. It was most likely deactivated at one time.

 

A FOIA request is the best way to find out for sure. A seller can claim anything, especially if it is purchased sight unseen.

 

We request a FOIA on all of our NFA C&R inventory before we sell anything. It may take time, but you can be honest with your potential customers.

 

Machine Price Guide is a good place to start. The average price range helps. We have Ppsh 41 that was brought back from Korea in 1951 without any import paperwork. It was deactivated in 1962 and registered with the Department of the Treasury on a form 1, when the veteran moved to NM that year. Barrel/bolt replaced during the reactivation. The original barrel and bolt included in the purchase.

 

Either way, it comes down to what is important to you when it is time to buy...

 

Good luck