Thompson 1928A1 - Canadian Contract?

[Robski]

Greetings All

 

I just bought this Dewat Thompson 1928A1 at a local auction up here in Canada and I couldn't be happier. Indeed it is one of the coolest weapons ever made.

 

The receiver has Savage 186411 stamped on it and has a mismatched trigger mechanism stamped AO 7211. It has the usual proof stamps on the left side including the GEG and RLB as well as the little flaming bomb stamp. There is a "TOMMY GUN" stamp on the top also.

 

It also has a small proof mark on the Right side of the receiver near the barrel (Included a blow up photo below). It looks to be a Crown with a monogram below it??

 

The sling is stamped NoBuckl and has a Patent date 7-21-14. Also included is a pistol grip style fore grip and an oil can in the stock. Mag looks modern and is unmarked.

 

 

1) My big question is could this be part of the Canadian Army Contract? From my limited research it appears that most contract Thompsons didn't have Canadian Proofs.

 

2) Besides the mismatched serial numbers are there any glaring problems with the originality of this weapon? Which fore grip would it have been issued with?

 

Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best Regards

Rob

 

[Mk VII]

It's a London proof mark, so it's been through the London Proof House at some point. Breechblock should also be marked, somewhere - if it isn't then it's been swapped out somewhere down the line. Might be on the actuator too.

 

Vertical grip appears to be a GPC replacement - too slab-sided. Some rounding off with glass paper or sander improves these, somewhat, but there are better reproductions.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Mk VII

[rpbcps]

Robski,

Nice example, I have a 1928A1 with the "TOMMY GUN" stamp on its receiver in my collection.

I believe your ‘Tommy gun’ would have been part of an order placed by Britain during the initial ‘cash and carry’ period of ‘MODEL OF 1928’ Thompsons, just before the introduction of the U.S. Lend Lease Program in March 1941.

Savage was still using an early roll stamp for the ‘MODEL OF 1928’ markings at the time. However, under the Lend Lease Act, the US government assumed ownership of the guns that were supplied to foreign armed forces, and the Act stated that the guns had to be marked as U.S. Property. So, the "US" and "A1" were retrospectively added by hand stamping them to the Model of 1928's from this order. I read it was somewhere around the 200,000-serial number range, that Savage began using a new roll stamp marked ‘U.S. MODEL OF 1928 A1’, so everything looked tidier.

The "Tommy Gun" stamp on the top of the receiver, was added to some Thompsons in 1941, in order to protect the copy right of the name.

Although a lot of the Model of 1928 / 1928A1 Thompsons encountered today will have a reinforcing cross-bolt in the stock, the bolt was added after the gun left the factory. The purpose of the cross-bolt upgrade was to prevent the stocks from cracking, so it is nice to see yours has not had the cross-bolt added.

There are some nice markings on the receiver too, the U.S. Ordnance stamped ‘flaming bomb’, as well as ‘GEG’ inspector stamp of George E. Goll and ‘RLB’ stamp of Army Inspector Roy L. Bowlin.

I recommend you buy a copy of “Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story” by Tom David, which tells the story of the British and Commonwealth forces Thompsons, a really good informative read, and MK VII contributed a lot of the research in that book.

Stay safe

Richard

[Ron Mills]

Would you mind sharing what the Canadian version of dewat consists of? I've seen online that Britain has "new" and "old" spec. Just curious. Nice looking specimen indeed. Please don't tell us it was only Can$200! If it was, good on you!

 

Thanks for posting the pics.

[TD.]

Robski,

Welcome to the Thompson forum. And congratulations on a very nice dewat. While the frame does not match the receiver, common with military Thompson gun, you have a very low numbered Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) frame. Would you please post a picture of the frame serial number.

 

The "Canadian Contract" that I am familiar with was only for 266 guns and was placed in the summer of 1940 in three separate orders (16, 200, & 50). Pages 32 & 33 - Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story. Depending on delivery, these would have been very early serial numbered Thompson guns, easily under serial number 20,000, probably much lower. I am not familiar with any other Canadian contracts but hope other Forum members have additional information. I did see in Frank Iannamico's book, American Thunder III, on page 213, that Canada received 1,321 Thompson guns via Lend-Lease.

 

Based on the serial number (S-186411) of your Savage Thompson, I would guess it was manufactured under the Lend-Lease Act after the U.S. Government assumed control of Thompson production. I believe the US and A1 nomenclature markings were standard after the government assumed complete control regardless of the end user. That said, there are some known 1928 Savage guns without the US and A1 markings in the late 100,000 serial number range. This may have been a transition point in production but that is just a guess on my part. I believe the nomenclature markings were slightly changed to U.S. (periods after the letters) not long after your Thompson was manufactured.

 

We have a few very knowledgeable members in Canada. I do hope they reach out to you.

 

All good stuff!!!

[Robski]

Hello

 

Thanks for all of the great information. I knew the Canadian origin was a long shot but a British one is great too.

 

This Dewat is surgically done with the only changes visible is the bolt welded to the receiver in the Mag well and the trigger welded to the frame. All moving parts are locked internally (selector and safety). Mag release still works. At another Gun auction they quoted about $300cdn to get a Thompson Dewatted (there were two originals in the auction ).

 

 

Here is the Frame AO Serial number.

 

 

I will start to gather the relevant books. For now I can run around my house going "Buda-buda-buda".

 

Best Regards

Rob

 

[TSMGguy]

IIRC, the TOMMY GUN marking does not necessarily mean British or Canadian contract. It was added to some guns as a trademark consideration, much like the bullet logo.

[Robski]

Agreed

But that is a pretty convincing London Proof mark.

Cheers

Rob

[TD.]

Rob,

Mk VII knows his stuff when it comes to the British!

 

What publication is that page extract from?

 

You may want to consider joining one or both of the Thompson associations. The quarterly newsletters are great and each organization has a Show & Shoot during late summer/early fall. Thompson enthusiasts from Canada do attend these private events Of course, they cannot bring their collection but we usually find a Thompson for them to shoot!

[Robski]

Here is the link. Found it on the NRA museum site.

 

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

 

Cheers

Rob

[Robski]

I feel a bit foolish.

 

There are subtle English London Commercial Proof marks on the Right side of the barrel that looked like scratches. They are almost identical to the ones on Page 115 of Great Britain - the Tommy Gun Story. The write up says these were Post Military service. The '900' is a bit messed up but the '45' and the '7 Tons' are nice and clear. There is also a stamp that is MP with a line below it and '36' or '86' below that.

 

The London Proof mark on the receiver described earlier is on the Right side also.

 

I am wondering if this might have been a Home Guard weapon? The absence of the Broad Arrow mark and other British Military marks is curious.

 

Best Regards

Rob