Welded Receivers

[Paladin601]

On another thread the direction has turned from "Parkerizing" to now welded receiver. I have no experience with this so I wish to open up it up more, if I may.

 

I understand of buy the piece and joining them by welding to make an operable gun. But what I don't understand aren't the roll marks destroyed. Does the side get ground smooth the roll marks reapplied?

 

How functional are these guns?

 

They still are not original, so what is the purpose?

 

The original was not heat treat for strength but stress relief, so why not use a Philly Ordan?

[mnshooter]

If you are building post guns, sure; Phillyord or DR is the way to go; much better than a parts weld.

 

But welding a transferable is another issue.

If you weld through the roll markings, they can be recut or deepened.

If you have to remove so much metal in cleanup that the roll markings are gone, the receiver walls are probably too thin to properly overhang the grip frame.

[Paladin601]

How can a cut up Receiver be transferable?

[TD.]

Prior to the manufacturing ban of machine guns for civilian ownership, many enterprising individuals would weld receiver parts together and register same with the ATF. It was a poor mans Thompson at best, but generally speaking they did work. After the 1986 ban any registered machine gun became very valuable. No one knows how many of these re-manufactured Thompson guns are on the NFA Registry with "Auto-Ordnance" or "Colt's" listed as the manufacturer. The ban is why Class Three junk commands a high price. It is definitely a buyer beware market.

 

Hats off for calling these receivers "welded." The normal incorrect term used is "re-weld" - like Thompson receivers were welded together in the first place!

[reconbob]

Yes, back in the day when anyone could do their own build and just send in the form with $200

many cut or Dewatted guns were welded up into shooters. Back then it was no big deal - a basement

or garage shop project. No one ever imagined that manufacture would be banned and that ANY

registered gun no matter how rough would be worth thousands of dollars. These builds were done

with no thought for restoration, just to have a gun to shoot. That is why the engraving would get welded

or the machining would be rough - it didn't matter. Good uncut guns were so cheap back then that

it made no sense to lavish a lot of time and work on a welded gun because the cost would overlap

with an uncut gun and you'd just buy a good one. Nobody was going to resurface, re-engrave,

precisely machine, etc. etc.

As a point of reference back in the 1980's when I first made complete original quality M1 Thompsons

with 4140 steel receivers and all MINT G.I. parts (which were available back then) I retailed the guns

for $695 and they did not sell that well. I sold some, but certainly they were not a big hit. Then the ban

came and ended it.

So looking at a junky welded gun today you have to realize that back then, if your parts, welding.

machining, and refinishing was going to run over $500-$600 you'd just buy an original uncut gun,

That's why there are so many of these dogs around....

 

Bob

[Paladin601]

Just how thin can the receiver walls go?

 

I have seen Photograph of a Thompson that had battle damage thru to the bolt channel and the soldier still used it for sometimes afterwards, my guess was the gun was good luck. (Believe it was Tracie Hills book)

[Paladin601]

Thanks for the info everyone!

[ThompsonCrazy]

Just how thin can the receiver walls go?

 

I have seen Photograph of a Thompson that had battle damage thru to the bolt channel and the soldier still used it for sometimes afterwards, my guess was the gun was good luck. (Believe it was Tracie Hills book)

I would love to see that photo! 1928 or M1?

TC

Edited January 27, 2015 by ThompsonCrazy

[Paladin601]

I will see if I can find it, it may take a while.

 

I found one reference to it on this forum, unfortunately my browser won't allow me to link it.

 

search "Battle Damaged 1928"

Edited January 27, 2015 by Paladin601

[Paladin601]

I tried a number of ways but the forum won't let me post the pictures

[laurencen]

here is a picture

[ThompsonCrazy]

WOW!

 

If that thing could talk. Pretty sure that is a good area to get the damage since it is above and forward of the blish.

 

Thanks for posting that photo laurencen.

 

TC

[buzz]

if you want to post pictures, try using google chrome as the browser

[james m]

I have a question for reconbob or anyone else that knows:
If someone has a registered Thompson that was made up by welding receiver parts together can you legally make a new replacement receiver for them provided the welded up example is destroyed? I think I know the answer but I'd prefer to hear it from you.

Jim

[bug]

Jim, you are correct. You kNOw the answer.

 

Bob D

[reconbob]

If you could replace a worn or damaged receiver with a new one then all of the horrible

weld/rewet type guns would have been upgraded long ago. The ATF will not allow this. I believe

that the original manufacturer can replace a receiver but that also may have been changed by

ATF.

I recently thought of contacting the people in West Hurley to see if there was anyone there

interested in re-opening Auto-Ordnance West Hurley NY and setting up so people with leaded

steel low quality receivers could return their gun to the original manufacturer and have their

receiver replaced with an ordnance quality 4140 steel receiver. I have no idea if this would

be do-able because the West Hurley manufacture is now 30 years ago....

 

Bob

[buzz]

From ATF:

7.5.4 May machinegun receivers be manufactured and used as replacement parts for machineguns lawfully registered and possessed prior to May 19, 1986?

As previously stated, 18 U.S.C. 922(o) generally makes it unlawful to possess or transfer any machinegun, including a machinegun frame or receiver, manufactured after May 18, 1986. Exceptions are provided for weapons produced by a qualified manufacturer for sale to government entities, as dealer sales samples, or for exportation. There is no exception allowing for the lawful production, transfer, possession, or use of a post-May 18, 1986 machinegun receiver as a replacement receiver on a weapon produced prior to May 19, 1986.

Edited January 27, 2015 by buzz

[buzz]

There was a time (after 1986) when both Olympic and Colt were replacing worn or damaged receivers on tranferrable M16s with new receivers that had the same serial number as the damaged receiver.

 

From what I have heard about it, this practice was going on for a while until somebody wrote ATF a letter of inquiry about it. That forced ATF to make a ruling on the practice and it was disallowed.