Any of you load ammo for TSMG?

[Dan K]

Wanted to compare notes.

 

I have loaded metallic ammo for decades. I loaded 30 rds tonight and found only towards the top end of book max ran my M1A1. I typically try and keep my loads at 90% of book max, nothing I do needs to push it.

 

I highly doubt I am anywhere near book max velocity or pressure. I would have to make a chamber cast to be sure, but I suspect my M1A1 is well towards the max range of SAAMI specs, this is a subgun, not a pressure barrel. I did not have time tonight to drag the chrono out.

 

Ten of each start 4.5 gr, mid point 5.0 gr, end 5.5 gr Solo 1000, WLP, 230 gr FMJ, 1.250" OAL. Weather was about 75 F, sunny, low humidity, typical of Northern IN this time of year.

 

4.5 gr would not run either in semi or full reliably, 5.0 gr ran in semi but not full, 5.5 gr ran in full.

 

I will load up a larger sample and try again. When I settle on a load I am tooling the Camdex up to fill a bucket.

[av8tr]

Well, I use a different powder, Win. 231. But, my load is close to the min load in the books I have. I loaded 5.2 gr. of Win. 231 with a 230 gr. FMJ bullet. OAL is 1.265 One book I have shows the min. load of 5.1 gr. and the max load of 5.6 gr. Another book shows a starting load of 5.2 gr. and a max. load of 5.8 gr. I have an M1 and it has alway run perfectly on that load.

[JimFromFL]

Clays and 3.7grs with 230 plated bullets.

 

Do a search as there have been a few posts related to reloading.

[StrangeRanger]

WLP

5.6 of 231

230 gr Berry's plated bullets

[pstidan]

5.7 gr of Unique, 230 gr RNL bullets

[shadycon]

5.6 gr. Unique, 230 gr. hard cast bullet in SA.

[Tiz]

5.0 gr. 700X 230 FMJ. 960 FPS average and runs flawlessly. Edited August 4, 2020 by Tiz

[jim c 351]

5.5 gr Unique & 230 gr Berry plated.

Jim C

[JimFromFL]

5.0 gr. 700X 230 FMJ. 960 FPS average and runs flawlessly.

 

I really like that 700X powder with pistols and its minimal felt recoil.

The only issue was at the end of the day I would have so much unburnt powder on my arms and hands I couldn't go near anyone who was smoking.

[Tiz]

Yes it is a little dirty I admit but it is still my favorite and very versatile. I use it in shotgun , 9mm, 45 Colt and .380 and a few more. 700X is very friendly to cast bullets as well.

[JBjorkland]

Anyone else use HS-6? Seems like a good medium burning pistol powder. Ive used it in most of my pistol loads and want to try it in my M1A1. 8.0 GR/ COL 1.260/ CCI LP NO 300

Book says starting load 6.7 at 700 FPS and max load 8.2 at 850. Ive always had best performance working closer to the upper end of book values when loading for semi pistols.

[bradhe]

HS-6 is on the fast side for 45 ACP (though i use if for major 38 super loads). WW231 was basically made for 45 ACP loads and back when that was the thing for practical shooting nearly everyone used it

[JBjorkland]

Thanks for the info. Ill try some W231 next to HS-6 loads and see how they compare. If there is anything noticeable to report Ill share what I find.

[heavy artillery]

I've been using 7 gr of power pistol with a 230gr FMJ-RN.

[Dan K]

I've loaded Clays before, Solo 1000 is cleaner burning and softer shooting which is why I prefer it.

 

I have an unopened keg of 231 I need to burn up. After I use up the powder in the chargemaster I will work up some loads for it. I got it some years ago free.

 

Back when it was "230" it was THE 45 acp powder along with Bullseye. Lots of guys still load it I just never have.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dan K

[TSMGguy]

Everybody has their own favorite recipe. Whatever it takes to cycle the gun reliably. It's still a low pressure round, any way you slice it.

[mnshooter]

Anyone else use HS-6? Seems like a good medium burning pistol powder. Ive used it in most of my pistol loads and want to try it in my M1A1. 8.0 GR/ COL 1.260/ CCI LP NO 300

Book says starting load 6.7 at 700 FPS and max load 8.2 at 850. Ive always had best performance working closer to the upper end of book values when loading for semi pistols.

 

HS-6 is the same as Winchester 540 At one time, it was reported to be used for NATO standard 9mm 124gr loads.

It's closer to the slow end for .45 230FMJ, but has the advantage of a double charge being very easy to notice.

The same is true for the unrelated American Select, which has also worked quite well for me in .45/230gr.

Also put many thousands downrange with Titegroup, but almost any 12ga trap shotgun powder can be used in .45.

 

In my experience, the M1's seem to like a GI spec load, while the 21's will run on almost anything, including a

"Marine Match" load with N310 and the 185gr Nosler HP, loaded to bullseye speed. 28's are in the middle.

Edited August 6, 2020 by mnshooter

[StrangeRanger]

HS-6 has one other advantage: it meters perfectly, absolutely zero charge-to-charge variance. Not really a big deal in .45s but when you're chasing Euro-equivalent 9mm loads it's a good thing to have going.

[MG08]

HS-6 is on the fast side for 45 ACP (though i use if for major 38 super loads). WW231 was basically made for 45 ACP loads and back when that was the thing for practical shooting nearly everyone used it

 

HP-38 is the same stuff - Been very cost effective and I use it in 40 S&W and 9mm too. I have found some inconsistency in purchased cast bullets, I pretty much stick to FMJ projectiles. cleaner and easier on the bore. Powders like unique and 700x are just too dirty for a day of shooting with sweat and grease/oil involved

[Tiz]

 

HS-6 is on the fast side for 45 ACP (though i use if for major 38 super loads). WW231 was basically made for 45 ACP loads and back when that was the thing for practical shooting nearly everyone used it

 

HP-38 is the same stuff - Been very cost effective and I use it in 40 S&W and 9mm too. I have found some inconsistency in purchased cast bullets, I pretty much stick to FMJ projectiles. cleaner and easier on the bore. Powders like unique and 700x are just too dirty for a day of shooting with sweat and grease/oil involved

Yea but I like my 700x. A little dirty and smokey, I like a little smoke.

[Dan K]

Rember the old Unique before it was reformulated to be "cleaner"? Flaming dirt was appropriate to describe the old Unique. Almost as filthy as 22 RF.

[imageaudio]

In all the post's I've read on this topic, only one person listed a Cartridge Overall Length (COL). I'm relatively new to the Thompson so perhaps I'm missing something? Since the pressure we are creating varies depending upon the volume of the empty casing, COL seems like a necessary data point to include along with the weight of the bullet?

 

Am I missing something? Perhaps there is a standard COL or OAL that everyone loads to of which I'm unaware for 45 ACP?

[ppgcowboy]

Different bullets have different COL. One important factor is to know it will fit into the box magazine. I load to 1.262 COL, I use Winchester 231 which is Hodgdon hp38 too, and use 5.2 grains. I look for 950fps.

[Dan K]

Typically you will have an OAL listed in the manual based on SAAMI/CIP if it is an established round.

 

I generally load 45 ACP between 1.250-1.260" OAL depending on fit into the magazine. All else held equal, the longer the OAL the lower the pressure for a given round.

 

With high pressure rounds, i.e. 40 S&W, I'd worry more about deeply seating bullets than 45 ACP. I'd also worry about driving a bottleneck round into the lands and touching it off more than 45 ACP OAL too. 45 ACP does the job by being big, fat, and slow which is indicative of a low pressure round.

[imageaudio]

Thanks for OAL info Gents.

 

So, I reload and run everything over a chrono but am not an engineer nor do I have a way to test pressures. I have reloaded 9mm in both 115 and 147 for years. I know the heavier the bullet, the less powder needed to meet the same power factor. (and understand that a shorter OAL results in less case volume which effects the pressure for any given powder load)

 

However, when I purchase NATO spec 9mm designed for subguns (PPU, S&B, Fiocchi) they always seem to be loaded with lighter bullets (115) and knowing we want a hot round to fully cycle our open bolt guns, I just assumed the tendency was to use lighter bullets with more powder to create higher pressures for cycling the bolt?

 

The question you all have raised in my mind is if I'm creating higher chamber pressures with the lighter bullets, then why is the WW2 mil spec round for the 45 the heavier 230 grn bullet instead of say, 185 grain bullet? Is it simply a supply chain consideration?

 

Also, could someone confirm I have my math correct? Lighter bullet allows for more powder which = higher chamber pressure? And higher chamber pressure then results in more back pressure to fully cycle the bolt?

Edited August 8, 2020 by imageaudio