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XD Prefix M2 Carbines - Considering ATF Request to Remove from NFA


dalbert
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Machinegunboards.com Members,

 

Please see the post below that I made, and have copied from the NFATCA board, and my comments about interactions on the Carbine Club board. I'm interested in your thoughts on this subject, particularly for your frank opinion on whether I should attempt this effort. I have just now begun to attempt to get the ball rolling.

 

From the NFATCA site:

 

I'm not a member of NFATCA, though I probably should be. I registered in this forum early on, but I believe this will be my first post. You may know me from Machinegunboards.com, and/or Sturmgewehr.com, and/or Knob Creek.


I'm currently considering making a request to ATF to have "XD" prefix "M2" marked, Inland manufactured Carbines removed from automatically being considered machine guns. I'd like to approach this under the name of the Carbine Club, and I have asked them (a cooperative collector association) to consider whether this is something they would like to pursue. I also want to check if NFATCA has any interest in it, which is the purpose of this post.

M2 Carbines, and the various iterations of M1/M2 conversions, overstamps, and registered part sets are among the most confusing NFA items in the registry. At some point, ATF decided that anything marked "M2" is considered a machine gun. This makes sense on the surface, since almost all Inland M2's, and the limited Winchester manufactured M2's (Mostly M1/M2 Overstamps) were assembled into machine guns for our military. However, as further M2 production was cancelled by the government, Inland had manufactured some M2 receivers that never got assembled into machine guns. That is the key point...they were never assembled into machine guns, and should technically not be considered such. The exact number is unknown, but it's probably between 50 to 75 guns, and they were stamped with an "XD" serial number prefix. These Carbines were then presented to employees of Inland in Dayton, Ohio, some with special plaques, etc., and they were taken home without another thought as to their NFA status in 1945, because they were never considered machine guns by Inland, even though they were marked "M2."

Recently on Facebook, one of these Carbines was highlighted, and the owner was informed that their Carbine was an NFA item. It had never been registered, and ended up being turned in to ATF, and almost certainly destroyed. Its serial number was XD43. I have included a photo of it below.

M2_XD43.jpg

Anyway, while I do not personally know of any other examples that are out there, I'm sure there are more. I've heard people talk about them at OGCA, and online, and there are likely more of them in my general vicinity, since I live about 35 miles from the former Inland plant location. I'd like to see these guns become saved from potential destruction.

Is this something that NFATCA would have any interest in pursuing? My current idea is to submit a letter from me, indicating the support of the Carbine Club, and NFATCA, requesting a variance to ATF for XD marked Inland M2 receivers, removing them from the NFA Registry, and possibly specifically listing them on the C&R list as regular firearms. I'm open to suggestion on this, which I'm soliciting here in this post. I do not yet have the support of either the Carbine Club, or NFATCA, and am just looking for input and support at this point.

I look forward to any input that may be presented here on this board.

Sincerely,

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

I have an ongoing conversation with a key individual in the Carbine Club about this potential effort. The initial response was that this had been discussed previously in past years, and the Club didn't want to get involved. I am trying to change that sentiment, because I think the time is coming where this may be able to become a successful effort.

 

I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. I'm particularly interested in what "The Lone Ranger" on this board thinks about it.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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David,

Short answer, sure go ahead. What do you have to loose??

Long answer,----I think I joined the carbine club around 1977. At that time I believe JB Powers

was president. Joe always believed in keeping a "low profile" and didn't like admitting that a

carbine club existed.

So, petitioning the ATF was considered, but Joe always vetoed the idea.

One of the most knowledgeable carbine collectors at the time was Sonny Saunders and he had an XD

carbine. Took the gun to gun shows for a nice display. It was registered under the amnesty.

Sonny had some connections at Inland Div back in 1977. Bottom line,-- none of the "X" guns

even left the factory with the automatic capability . The only reason they were stamped M2 is

because that was the stamp Inland was using on production line. They were never full auto.

Back in 1977 it probably would have been easy to get a letter from Inland stating as much.

All these years later, all those in the know at Inland are probably dead.

Don't let that fact discourage you.

 

Short story. My wife is from the Dayton area. Back in the early '80s she accomptied her parents

to visit a retired Inland executive. He showed he a mint XD carbine.

Jim C

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Jim,

 

That's my sentiment exactly. I don't see a downside on making this request to ATF. I appreciate your input on this, and it is consistent with other stories I've heard.

 

The Carbine Club has a unique structure. If you were a member in 1977, and have any of the old CC newsletters, I would be interested to know if there was a President listed for the organization. I joined in 2011, and in the conversation I've participated in so far, I'm told that there have never been any official Carbine Club officers, and that the association has always been a cooperative effort, with certain people who performed certain functions in support of producing the newsletter.

 

I have been very active in the Carbine Club forum since it began at this time last year, and made some contributions to the organization prior to the online shift. I had an article published in the newsletter, and a couple of featured items, and sent in a couple of data sheets. As such, and also because of my experience with managing firearm subject forums, I was consulted during the online transition, and was granted early access. So, I feel slightly invested in the club, and am hoping that my effort will receive appropriate consideration.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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David,

Perhaps I should not have used the word "president". Maybe "leader" or "most important person" would be more correct.

In any case I will make a copy of newsletter #1, dated Nov 1, 1976 and get it in the mail tomorrow.

The carbine was my favorite firearm as a preteen and remains so today.

My father took me to a Sportsman Show when I was quite young. The US Army had a display and the carbine was the only long gun I was strong enough to hold. Told Dad ,"that's the gun for me".

Later, my father was visiting a friend, and walking thru his barn spotted a carbine barreled action . It had a coat of light rust but no pitting. The friend gave it to my father and he gave it to me. A $5.00 stock and a $2.00 bolt and I was in business.

Jim C

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