Dewat reactivation question

[ranger1385]

I have a dewat question. Would a sten that was reactivated in 1968 be eligible as a curio and relic? I have a C & R license. Seller advises he has documentation showing it was reactivated in 1968. It's over 50 years ago so?

[MG08]

What was it before ? a parts kit or a registered DEWAT ?

[BillyDixon]

was it a dewat that the owner registered as live in the amisty in 1968,? actually parts were scarce back then, its only in the last 20 years that thousands of cut up parts kits showed up on the market, just sayn

[johnsonlmg41]

If it was registered in 1968 it's a C+R gun whether it's reactivated or still unserviceable, so you are good to go on transferring it on your license

[ranger1385]

If it was registered in 1968 it's a C+R gun whether it's reactivated or still unserviceable, so you are good to go on transferring it on your license

Ok, that's what I was hoping/thought. Thank you.

[Robert Henley]

What if it was reactivated after 1968 but on or before May 19, 1986? I assume if it was a registered dewat it would be C&R, correct?

 

What sparked my curiosity is the following Strumgewehr listing:

 

WTS: C&R Sten Mk II $11,000 - NFA Market Board - Sturmgewehr.com Forums

 

I seem to recall a post by Johnsonlmg41 awhile back with a comment to the effect that around 90% of C&R guns were reactivations (this is a vague recollection so please correct if needed).

 

Maybe Bob Ness will respond too given his comment in the above link on Strumgewehr. The comments do not reflect any opinion on the C&R status but seem to question whether it's C&R (and that may be an incorrect assumption on my part).

 

What I'm really interested in is how do you know for sure a gun is C&R if it is advertised as C&R but you have it transferred to a local SOT on a Form 3 rather than on a Form 4 to an individual (the reason being is the Form 3 would be a quick transfer and you wouldn't have to worry about the gun in another state for the next 10 months or so or however long it takes BATF to approve the transfer on a Form 4 to an individual)? Of course, if the gun was not C&R and the seller attempted to transfer to an out-of-state individual on a Form 4 BATF would not transfer it.

 

What if the original date of registration is not clear from a FOIA request but the date of reactivation is clear?

 

Can you simply call BATF and ask if a particular gun is C&R? I don't recall anything on the Form 4 other than a C&R license number but I've included on silencer registrations which are not C&R, so I don't think that's definitive. I guess the manufacture listed on the Form 4 is indicative.

 

I'm not interested in the gun on Strumgewehr, but just trying to get a better understanding of how to confirm a particular gun is in fact C&R. A C&R gun of course is worth more than a similar non-C&R gun.

 

Robert

[johnsonlmg41]

The only way to know for sure is an FOIA request that theoretically will provide the original registration papers (assuming atf can find them, not always the case) or if the owner has original reg. paperwork that dates back 50 years (this could be a letterhead and may not be a "form" as we have today). The dates on the forms are always clear

 

The gun you link to has the serial number on the magazine housing which is where original guns were marked. Had the gun been registered "post 1968", in theory the tube would have been the receiver and thus that would have been marked with the makers information and his info on the registration papers. There is the chance someone put it together post 68 and just used the numbers on the magazine housing, but the odds are low since it wasn't a legit way of doing it. Regardless of the gun, the paperwork is the only 100% way of knowing for sure even if the gun has issues this is really all about the paperwork.

 

Calling atf is fruitless, in writing is the only way to go and it has to be to the current registrant, and takes forever. Anything from an SOT holder can't be verified one way or another. A previous out of state transfer to a C+R holder is probably a 99.99% sign the gun will transfer currently to another C+R holder and while there have been errors they are few when going permanently out to a form 4 holder.

 

The reason I stand by my previous statement is because when WW1 and WW2 foreign guns were brought here the sales prices very rarely exceeded 200, guys reactivated and shot them anyhow since enforcement was pretty rare and no one was going to pay 200 to register a $37 lewis gun. Along came 68', registration was free......who doesn't like free stuff, so that's when most registrations took place. Between 68 and 86, you have the "limbo" guns, guys forgot, didn't trust the system or didn't hear about the amnesty. Under those circumstances many original guns were registered, but those registrations will bear out the name of the maker or mfr. that registered them and in most cases that name will appear somewhere on the firearm, but is often hidden,so some disassembly may be required to see it. In the near future these will become C+R as well. Anything registered 1971 and earlier is now C+R. The line between original and these limbo guns will get blurry and since some were never legally deactivated/legally destroyed those guns will assume the value of "pre-1968" guns. Somewhat confusing, but HTH.

Edited October 24, 2021 by johnsonlmg41