The Thompson Hardcase

[emmagee1917]

Hey , you've got to do something to keep those Thompson-toting guards awake through the night.

Chris

[TD.]

This thread needs another run from the top. Where else but on this Board will you find a rare Swetnam FBI coffee urn case.

 

In all seriousness, this is a great story with comments from some very knowledgeable people. Great work!

[Supershooter]

I appreciate your work delving into the origin of the Police and FBI Thompson cases and am very happy that we have a Thompson case category here on the Forum. Perhaps you can give me your thoughts regarding a recently unearthed flat Thompson case measuring 34-5/8" x 10-5/8" x 3". Its manufacture is attributed to an un-named inmate of the U. S. Penitentiary at Atlanta, GA who made the case for a guard. Along with this case came the prison guard's hat with shield marked Federal Prison Service, United States Dept. of Justice. The case has no name plate or other marking to suggest its origin. It is of wood construction with pigskin finish leatherette covering. The interior is covered in a cotton fabric and came with a Thompson rod held in the lid. As you can see it accepts a Model 21 Thompson and L drum and will handle the gun loaded with a 20 rd. magazine. However, with a 30 rd. the case is at least 1/2" too narrow for it to fit. A less than appropriate hinge style was used as the three hinges project further from the body than the corner protectors, causing the case to tilt when set down on its hinge side. The only marking is a roughly cut piece of metal with the number 6 stamped into it. So it would appear that at one time there were at least 5 other cases of some type or other. A Thompson Police case is included for comparison. Has anyone come across this type of case before or heard of prison made cases?

[dalbert]

Supershooter,

 

Very unique case. Thank you very much for posting it here. I believe this case was made from scratch, as I have never seen another like it. Having the hat to accompany it adds to the presentation. This case most likely pre-dates WWII, and the 30-round magazine was not yet available, so it would not have been made to fit it.

 

Can you tell us more about how you acquired the case?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

This case was for sale for over a year on GUNSAMERICA(?) first at $1200 and then $600. The hat may be worth more than the case.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Polythemus/Thompsonsmgprisoncase_zpsb197239a.jpg

[Supershooter]

Yes, it appears to be the same case, and I had not seen it offered before finding it on Guns International. I pumped the seller for any and all information about it but except for the prison itself I have no other leads to its history. I thought that its existence should be archived on your forum to document a piece of the Thompson story.

[buzz]

If a guy wants to write in a book that Thompson cases were made from trombone cases, then the burden is on that guy to prove it.

 

It's not our job to prove it.

 

We should just simply assume that everything that cannot be reasonably proved started out as somebody's guess.

 

 

Probably at some point in the past some collector wrote an article and said, "Thompson cases were made by music instrument case manufacturers."

 

And then that eventually got morphed into "Thompson cases were made from music instrument cases."

 

 

This is the problem with "historical knowledge": as soon as something gets written in a book or repeated often enough, everyone just assumes it's true.

 

They'll even passionately and stubbornly argue that's it's true, even though they cannot produce a scrap of evidence.

 

Back during WWII the Japanese made a propaganda film showing a samurai saber chopping a machine gun barrel in half. But it was of course fake.

 

To this day you'll read in books and magazine articles that "samurai sabers were so sharp they could cut a machinegun barrel in half."

 

Right on the face of it, it's a ridiculous statement but now it's become "historical fact".

 

 

Looking at it logically, you can see that Thompson cases are sized to perfectly fit a Thompson and the mags.

 

Obviously the case is custom made and sized to fit a Thompson.

 

 

 

Anyway, I like this thread, I wish there was more gun collectors putting "nifty gunshop facts" to the acid test instead of just repeating them.

 

Polite golf clap!

Edited May 25, 2014 by buzz

[buzz]

Yes, it appears to be the same case, and I had not seen it offered before finding it on Guns International. I pumped the seller for any and all information about it but except for the prison itself I have no other leads to its history. I thought that its existence should be archived on your forum to document a piece of the Thompson story.

/

/

 

And so it should. The case is an interesting artifact.

 

A lot of gun collectors have sort of a snobby version of OCD, don't let it get on your nerves.

[anjong-ni]

These two threads are fascinating. Extra thanks to those who posted pictures.

As for diagonally split cases, I think I've seen them in other applications, like steam-era gauge sets and test equipment. Wish I had a pic....

Finally, I'm certainly not the first to wonder why they designed a case for the Thompson that tips over when you remove the gun....Phil

 

*On page 35 of the D.R. Catalog linked in the Forum here...the "Super-Shooter" case....with little extendable feet on the lid so it won't tip!*

Edited May 26, 2014 by anjong-ni

[OCM]

Historically, maybe I'm repeating myself, but Dillinger showed up at the East Chicago Bank, January 15, 1934, with a trombone case, entered the bank, opened it up and pulled out a Thompson. This is from eyewitnesses. However eyewitnesses have been proven to be unreliable.

He was accused of killing officer William O'Malley with the Thompson as he escaped.

 

My 14 dollars on the subject.

 

BTW, in my small collection I have two ORIGINAL Kahr " China " cases- As worthless as " tit's on a Boar "

[jim c 351]

Sandy,

Are you stating that JHD did not kill officer O'Malley??

What did the officer die from??

Jim, C

[buzz]

Historically, maybe I'm repeating myself, but Dillinger showed up at the East Chicago Bank, January 15, 1934, with a trombone case, entered the bank, opened it up and pulled out a Thompson. This is from eyewitnesses. However eyewitnesses have been proven to be unreliable.

He was accused of killing officer William O'Malley with the Thompson as he escaped.

 

My 14 dollars on the subject.

 

BTW, in my small collection I have two ORIGINAL Kahr " China " cases- As worthless as " tit's on a Boar "

/

/

 

Well, the subject of the thread is whether or not FBI cases were just modified saxophone cases.

 

I'm very skeptical about that idea.

 

But I'm not skeptical about Dillinger putting a Thompson into a music instrument case.

 

Probably a lot of guns have been carried in gym bags and toolboxes and all kinds of improvisation.

[OCM]

Dillinger was accused of the crime, but escaped jail before he was sentenced, then killed of course. There are two sides to the story about East Chicago. My research would indicate he did kill O'Malley and would indicate he showed up with the Thompson in some sort of case. This was kinda verified to me by the late Joe Pinkston, that had talked to some witnesses. Also Joe said the family of one of the East Chicago officers, still had the case . No, I don't know where it is. Seems everything about Mr. Dillinger is confusing and conflicting.

 

 

 

One of my cases- to keep this thread in the right direction.

Edited May 27, 2014 by OCM

[darrylta]

Now that's a great looking tommy and case combo.

-Darryl

[thirtyround]

Shot in the dark question; on FBI agents equipment in regard to luggage cases. Did FBI during their official travels, have FBI issued hard luggage? Or did they gravitate toward a particular high quality "hard case" brand. The reason I ask is, at a local antique store I frequent, there was several pieces of extremely robust hard cased luggage with name stenciled on side; R.L. BURROUGHS. It looked period correct and was advertised as 1930's FBI agents travel luggage.

[OCM]

Larry Wack may have the answer to that.

 

Also, luggage sets were purchased with automobiles. As an example when you bought a Packard, the luggage could come with the car and fit into the Packard accessory trunk on the car. Lot of the cars in the early didn't have trunks, so you bought a trunk to go on the car and the luggage.

I may have drifted off your subject a bit, but common in the early 30s. Some of the trunks could be removed and carried into where you were staying.

 

FBI luggage ? The name Burroughs rings a bell with me, placed with the FBI. Definitely look that up on Larry's FBI site. Might of found something a bit historical. Keep us posted please.

 

OCM

[Skittorius]

Awesome, that's beeyootiful. I did buy a real nice vintage violin case, faux alligator, orange velvet interior etc but turns out it's way too small. Looked a lot bigger online...

Bill,

It was very good to see you at SAR East last weekend. This is an excellent post, and the amount of time spent researching it is apparent.

I think I posted this picture before, but here's a case that Helmer modified for his 1921A. I believe this was a tenor saxophone case prior to the conversion, which would have been around 1970.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/Thompson_Pictures/Case_Web.JPG

I'll have to ask him if there was any precedent to his choice of the saxophone case for his case conversion. IIRC, he sought out a case that would fit it, and the sax case was the closest fit.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[Johndee007]

There are two pictures taken and posted in the newspaper of East Chicago Chief of Police Nicholas Marker, holding the opened hard case. In the case is the buttstock and looks like two twenty round magazines and boxes of ammunition from the First National Bank in East Chicago on January 15, 1934 that was left behind by Dillinger and Hamilton.

 

John Hansen

jmhansen@bresnan.net

[John Dillinger]

You could always go for the suitcase option.

 

[firearm]

A few pics of an old armored car drum carrier loaded up with 6 serial numbered "L" drums. At least that is what it was sold to me as. I wanted to get this up for future reference just in case I lose this pics.

Edited May 28, 2021 by firearm

[full auto 45]

A few pics of an old armored car drum carrier loaded up with 6 serial numbered "L" drums. At least that is what it was sold to me as. I wanted to get this up for future reference just in case I lose this pics.

 

I see a new case for Greg Fox to start.

[BRMCII]

Curious to know if a specific case was made to fit the '21A version. Having seen many pics over the years of cases, they all have had a front chock for the compensator. I have a Swetnam case acquired in the early 1970s with the usual compensator chock and have a '21A with it.

[1921A]

Replica Indiana case for 21A.

Edited May 30, 2021 by 1921A

[full auto 45]

AWESOME Greg. As always, the work is perfect. I have your Indiana case and the original old FBI case with the dent in the top. Email me on the 6 drum case.

[ppgcowboy]

So how much for one of those? FBI, police, Alabama, Indiana, Viola...,,guess I need one of those too.