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How was the Thompson Carrying Soldier Equipped During WWII


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Does anyone know the standard load out for a solider equipped with a Thompson during WWII? I have seen 3 pocket canvas pouches marked USMC that were used with 30 round magazines, what did the Army use? How many magazines was a solider required to carry, and how did they do so?
Thanks,
Mark

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This is a good question and it will be interesting to see what people say. On questions like

this, i don't go by the "book", I go by what I see in old photos and film footage. I have seen my

share (haven't we all) of books and documentaries and I can recall seeing the 5 cell pouch for

20-rd mags worn on the back, but I do not ever recall seeing the three cell pouch for the 30-rd

mags. But this is just me. I am sure others will weigh in...

 

Bob

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Mark,

I can't remember seeing any 30 rd USMC marked pouches in used condition. So I wonder if the Marines even used them.

If you want to know how much ammo each soldier was required to carry , you need to check with their platoon Sgt.

It probably varied depending on circumstances.

Jim C

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Excellent answers, thanks guys.

 

I too have watched documentaries, and looked at photos from WWII. But the military is the military, and they have a set way of doing things. BY THE BOOK is very real in the military. I dont doubt that in combat, guys did all kinds of things, to meet the situation, or what experience had taught them. But the military has a specific way of loading your equipment, and I was hoping to get the straight dope.

 

I too have seen pictures of guys in the pacific theatre using the 5 cell magazine pouches, but now that you mention it, I dont think I have ever seen a 3 cell pouch for the 30 round magazines. Interesting stuff!

Mark

Edited by Rabbit57
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A picture paints a thousand words they say.

 

5 cell 30 rnd.jpg

20 rund pouch with 5 x 30 rnd mags

 

82nd AB combat layout Pre Sicily Drop.jpg

82nd Combat layout Pre Sicily drop

 

USMC Pacific Theatre

WW2 USMC Pacific Theatre.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

 

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The "standard" load out for a "Marine" armed with a Thompson will vary depending on the Date / Time of the publication referenced. One of the common Reference books used by Marines has been "The Marines's Handbook" and that was updated over time in accordance to the official changes in the Tables of Equipment for particular units and the Landing Force Manual.

 

In the Copy of The Marine's Handbook I have, 7th Edition, dated 1940 Published by The United States Naval Institute, Annapolis MD. The " Thompson Submachine Gun Model 1928" is mentioned in Chapter 2, page 19 under rules for carrying the Automatic Rifle and Submachine Gun. It specifies use of the XX box mag (20 rounds) and L-Drum (50 round) drum. Issued submachine gun belt (same as pistol belt) with 5 cell web pouch and L- Drum pouch. " referenced as magazine cases" Chapter 11 Pages 84 - 95, details the weapon, assembly, disassembly, cleaning, firing etc. Every facet of use, care and preservation. Quite detailed. Some interesting details... says to keep the gun well cleaned and oiled "especially the felt pads". The principal type of fire to be used? Ans. . Semi-automatically. 40 to 60 rounds per minute. The most accurate method of firing in in Full Automatic is with 2 - 3 round bursts...

 

Chapter 14 discusses field gear, including light and heavy pack, canteens, shelter half etc.

 

Other references used at unit level specified the gear to be issued. Standard was 5 magazines, L-Drum (with pouches) pistol belt, sling, cleaning gear and a leather or tin case. The tin could be stored in a box magazine cell, when 1 mag was in the Thompson.

 

Depending on the billet the Marine was in, he could also have been issued a 45 Automatic pistol and holster with 3 magazines and a 2 cell magazine pouch.

 

This would be a good reference on what was issued at this time, what was carried in garrison, training and field marches. In combat, you could get more, but understand that is also more weight. In combat, you would see differences based on the type of unit, (infantry, artillery, tanks etc) as well as the area of operations.

 

When I can dig out other manuals I will cite highlights as I find them.

 

So, this is what the manual's said, but they are only reference points once you in combat.

Semper Fi,

Sandman1957

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Rabbit57

Your question prompted me to pull out some old manuals I have, most which I have only skimmed and never read completely. Certainly not word for word, page by page. Now that I am looking for some "by the book" references used by real Marines in World War II, I am seeing things that are clear errors, or things that may have been gospel then, but is not gospel now. During wartime, a lot of manuals, publications and references materials would be printed and issued at different levels / places of training. Many were made by clerks or instructors where there was clear cut and paste type of things going on. So some things in print, may have been errors as well.

 

Now I am referencing the "WEAPONS" (Marine Infantry Battalion) Table of Organization Approved 1 July, 1942. Given to me by Sgt Ken O'Donnell 457221 USMC Raider, 4th Raider Battalion. This was the reference he had that was published as a Student Guide from Marine Corps Schools, Marine Barracks, Quantico, VA 1943.

This reference cites two models of Thompsons the model of 1928, and the Model of 1928A1. In this reference, it says and shows in two photos that the difference between the two is the 1928 has a vertical grip, and the 1928A1 has a Horizonal grip!! On page 40 it states "Ammunition Supply. - The unit of fire is 260 rounds per gun in an infantry battalion, proportioned as follows: 77 per cent ball and 23 per cent tracer. The gunner can carry 180 rounds. (Two 50 round drums and four 20 round magazines.)

All for now.

Sandman1957

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Great Question: Answer : I don't think there is a photo of any Marine or US Army cat with 30rd magazine pouch during ww2, there possibly might be USMC imagery during Japanese home island occupation immediately after WW2 but..... There was load outs planned for US Army and Marines during WW2, thing is it varied to theater, mission and location. I'm mostly in tune with how Marines did their thing. Its all over the board.... Marines certainly had the 1928A1 issued early on but they mostly had the M1 and M1A1's. With that said, there are photo's of Marines in 1945 Okinawa with 1928's and drum magazines, when drums were axed years prior, why you ask? because some Salty Dog Marine Gunny or MSgt wanted it that way, they made it happen, individual exceptions. .....Probably all the old timers from the 1rst Marines carried this type of thing forward as the Corps grew to 6 Divisions. One thing is absolutely certain.... a single fully loaded 30rd magazine weighed 2 lbs do the math on 5 to 10 magazines and a 10/11 pound weapon....

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A picture paints a thousand words they say.

 

attachicon.gif 5 cell 30 rnd.jpg

20 rund pouch with 5 x 30 rnd mags

 

attachicon.gif 82nd AB combat layout Pre Sicily Drop.jpg

82nd Combat layout Pre Sicily drop

 

USMC Pacific Theatre

attachicon.gif WW2 USMC Pacific Theatre.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

Top picture; no buttstock and 2 mags ready to pull out of pouch!

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Yes, specifically WW2. If someone could post a US soldier or Marine with a vertical foregrip Thompson I would appreciate it. If they are wearing a M1 helmet, even better. The foregrip would be that of original design, not the one that looks like half horizontal half vertical field made one. I have yet to see a photo of the described. .
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Assume you mean WWII and not Nicaragua and China. They have both at each place. They did fabricate some vertical grips.

 

ome photos on file of improvised vertical foregrips being used by US forces, and one not improvised. The caption on the photo of the issued vertical grip said “ US 32 Inf Div Nov 42 Battle of Buna New Guinea"

 

504th PIR  Sept 17 1944 Op Market Garden.jpg

504th PIR Sept 17 1944 Op Market Garden

 

Dick Fisco509th PIB Op Dragon Southern France.jpg

Dick Fisco 509th PIB Op Dragon Southern France

 

and one that was previously appeared on this forum

 

PFC Robert Lansley with Andy Bougainville.jpg

PFC Robert Lansley with Andy Bougainville

 

and this is the one that looks like an orginal vertical foregrip, in use in the Battle of Buna New Guinea in 1942

 

US 32 Inf Div Nov 42  Battle of Buna New Guinea.jpg

 

and finally the last with the caption "Garnier Aug 1944" is a Model of 1921 complete with L drum, maybe one of the early WW2 French contract Model of 1921's, that the GI has found?

Garnier Aug 44 1921.jpg
stay safe
Richard
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Assume you mean WWII and not Nicaragua and China. They have both at each place. They did fabricate some vertical grips.

ome photos on file of improvised vertical foregrips being used by US forces, and one not improvised. The caption on the photo of the issued vertical grip said US 32 Inf Div Nov 42 Battle of Buna New Guinea"

 

504th PIR Sept 17 1944 Op Market Garden.jpg

504th PIR Sept 17 1944 Op Market Garden

 

Dick Fisco509th PIB Op Dragon Southern France.jpg

Dick Fisco 509th PIB Op Dragon Southern France

 

and one that was previously appeared on this forum

 

PFC Robert Lansley with Andy Bougainville.jpg

PFC Robert Lansley with Andy Bougainville

 

and this is the one that looks like an orginal vertical foregrip, in use in the Battle of Buna New Guinea in 1942

 

US 32 Inf Div Nov 42 Battle of Buna New Guinea.jpg

 

and finally the last with the caption "Garnier Aug 1944" is a Model of 1921 complete with L drum, maybe one of the early WW2 French contract Model of 1921's, that the GI has found?

Garnier Aug 44 1921.jpg

 

stay safe

Richard

Thank you! The last two pics are the ones I was most I interested in. Until now, I never seen a pic of a US serviceman with a 28 with the original type vertical grip.

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Guys, where do I go to find out how to post photos on this forum? Be advised, if I told you my computer skills were low, I would be bragging.

 

Bottom right of 'Reply to this topic' box next to post it says More reply options:

 

reply.JPG

 

Click on that and you get the options to post photos

 

You'll then get the folowing options:

reply 1.JPG

 

You then select 'Choose File' bottom left and once done below that choose 'Attach this file':

reply 3.JPG

 

Once done click on 'Add to Post' and that is all there is to it!

 

Good luck

Richard

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