MrBill Posted May 27, 2019 Report Share Posted May 27, 2019 How come, in the ATF Curio and Relics inventory they classify only one Group Industries BAR as C&R eligible ? It is identified as serial number 00229? I see that they classify all the West Hurley Thompson's as C&R eligible? Is there any chance of getting ATF to list Group Industries BAR's as C&R eligible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 An owner of a specific serial number Group BAR petitioned ATF to designate it as C+R eligible and provided independent appraisal that it should be included due to its high value as a collector firearm. This is one of the two criteria. The other threshold for inclusion is that the MG is more than fifty years old from date of manufacture. Group BARS will all be included eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) I was hoping David Albert or someone who was involved was going to answer the West Hurley part of your question. Bottom line Members of this Forum, the Thompson Collectors Association, The American Thompson Association (I believe) etc and perhaps others put together a very comprehensive package and submitted it to the NFA Division to have ALL West Hurley Model 1928's and the M1's added to the registry as Curio and Relics. You could petition to have yours included and I am sure if you ask for assistance, those who have done that in the past can assist. I was not one of them. CheersSandman1957 Edited May 28, 2019 by Sandman1957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) Group Industries made and registered 284 BARs, a very small number, and it probably would only require a small number of owners to organize a petition representing their interest in having all registered examples designated as C+R. As usual it would require one or two individuals to do the leg work of organizing owners, finding a museum curator or "official" person acceptable to ATF/NFA to write up an assessment and vouch for the high sales and collector value of these MGs and submit the proposal to ATF. Not a complicated procedure but will take considerable energy and time. There are quite a few individually identified firearms on the C+R list.On Dec 2, 1968, which was the date the GCA '68 took effect and complete MG receivers could no longer be imported and registered for private transfer and possession, or unregistered MGs be registered, it was also the beginning of what became ATF's administration of "remanufactured" MGs. Federal law actually still allowed firearms manufacturers and individuals to manufacture and register MGs for private transfer and possession. From that date until May 19, 1986 registration of new "manufacture" and "remanufactured" MGs took place and on Dec 2, 2018 the beginning of the 50 years-from-date-of-manufacture requirement for eligibility for C+R status went into effect for all those MGs made between '68 and '86. In 18 years from Dec 2, 2018, which will be that date in 2036, all remanufactured MGs will be eligible. So, in the bigger picture all those Group MGs will eventually be included. FWIW Edited May 28, 2019 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBill Posted May 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 Thank You for the very informative responses. If any one else owns a group industries BAR and would like to be able to get it on the ATF C&R list I would be more than happy to help in the process. As BMR states "it would only require a small number of owners" . This would certainly improve the portability of the gun and maybe also improve the value.I mean really....they already have one listed!!!......Will they say no and take that one off the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoy99 Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 I'd be willing to help as I'd like my Group Industries BAR (00076) classed as C&R. It is configured as a M1918A2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxfaxdude Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 I was hoping David Albert or someone who was involved was going to answer the West Hurley part of your question. Bottom line Members of this Forum, the Thompson Collectors Association, The American Thompson Association (I believe) etc and perhaps others put together a very comprehensive package and submitted it to the NFA Division to have ALL West Hurley Model 1928's and the M1's added to the registry as Curio and Relics. You could petition to have yours included and I am sure if you ask for assistance, those who have done that in the past can assist. I was not one of them. CheersSandman1957ALL fully transferable Thompson submachine guns are considered by the ATF to be curios and relics since 2006! This has already been discussed on this board. See this link http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av8tr Posted October 16, 2019 Report Share Posted October 16, 2019 I was hoping David Albert or someone who was involved was going to answer the West Hurley part of your question. Bottom line Members of this Forum, the Thompson Collectors Association, The American Thompson Association (I believe) etc and perhaps others put together a very comprehensive package and submitted it to the NFA Division to have ALL West Hurley Model 1928's and the M1's added to the registry as Curio and Relics. You could petition to have yours included and I am sure if you ask for assistance, those who have done that in the past can assist. I was not one of them. CheersSandman1957ALL fully transferable Thompson submachine guns are considered by the ATF to be curios and relics since 2006! This has already been discussed on this board. See this link http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5991I believe he knew that, and was simply hoping someone with knowledge of the campaign for that ruling would chime in with pertinent information to use as a template for the Group Ind. BARs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APEXgunparts Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Speaking of Group Industries BAR's, I have a friend who is selling serial number 2 for her Father's estate.The guns appears to be quite clean, with a plastic stock I assume it wasn't fired very much.She asked me (several times over the past year or so) what I thought would be a fair asking price.To me the serial number adds no value, am I wrong?I have noted a number of Group Industries BAR's sell and I feel the prices have come down since I was first asked what I thought a fair price would be.What is fair market value today for this transferable MG (it is on a form 4, so likely a double transfer)Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeRanger Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Morphy's has one in this month's auction estimated at $18K-24KKeep an eye on it and set your selling price accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APEXgunparts Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 Morphy's has one in this month's auction estimated at $18K-24KKeep an eye on it and set your selling price accordingly Thanks for the tip.I am watching that BAR and since I was looking, I took note of a few other guns! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beangun Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 Hey I know this thread is 2 years old but Im new to machinegun boards and was wondering if anyone got this done and or not. Just acquired a group BAR this year and would like to get it on c&r. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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