Class 3 transfer without a will.

[Jay_shy]

I need pointed in the right direction. I have made numerous calls to the NFA as well as class 3 dealers and I can't seem to get a straight answer. Here is my question

 

My father who resided in Pennsylvania, recently passed without a will and he owned a tommy gun. He is survived by his spouce, my mother. I would like to know what needs done to transfer the firearm to me? Everyone I call at the NFA gives me a different answer or will not give me a straight answer.

[Guest title ii]

The site below should have everything you need and help you better understand the water you are swimming in.

 

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/20/00.021..HTM

 

If you need counsel I'd recommend asking around here for references http://forum.pafoa.org.

 

Good luck!

[Jay_shy]

I am aware of intestate succession in PA. I have mentioned this to several people at the NFA and nodoby can tell me what kind of documentation I need to submit to prove that my mother is the lawful heir so she can sign the form 4 on my fathers behalf. She is not the executor because there was no will.

[huggytree]

if there is no will why isnt the wife the heir?

 

who else could it be?

 

im no expert, but id just look for a lawyer who deals in this stuff to solve it.

[Guest title ii]

I am aware of intestate succession in PA. I have mentioned this to several people at the NFA and nodoby can tell me what kind of documentation I need to submit to prove that my mother is the lawful heir so she can sign the form 4 on my fathers behalf. She is not the executor because there was no will.

The devil is always in the details friend. The government really can't give you legal advice when it comes to the state property issue. Signed paperwork saying who the beneficiaries are accompanied with the appropriate ATF application for action is what you need to provide when the time comes. Find someone who is in good standing and has a bar card from PA to give you the juicy details of what your journey entails. This is the best course of action. Make sure to ask for references.

 

Some good pieces of documents to start to gather:

Death certificate

Your parents marriage licence

Edited May 20, 2016 by title ii

[Waffen Und Bier]

There should be something in state law saying who gets what (surviving spouse, child, etc.) Widow should be able to sign husband's property way depending on property laws of the state.

[bug]

Your mom needs a PA attorney familiar with the administration of spousal property. Once documented, the gun is hers to do with as she pleases. If there is a chance that your dad left it to you, it could transfer tax free to you via FORM 5. Again, get an attorney.

 

Bob D

[Junkhunter]

I have bought a few class 3 items registered to deceased individuals. I hired a attorney they called the ATF and worked out the required. Mostly a death certificate, a doc showing who was the executor of the estate from the court and a assignment of interest from the folks named in the will agreeing to sell it. Although this has varied a few times. But when the attorney sent a letter and said we want to transfer this firearm it was assigned a case and inspector, the answers were straight and it moved fast.

[Motorcar]

Having dealt with the passing of both of mine, here is how I understand what happens in my state, but...Probate laws vary from state to state. Obviously the wife would have full property rights, but without a will his estate will still need to go through a probate court to establish her legal ownership. Once she has that prescribed by the court and filed with the county clerk, she may assign ownership of legal property to you. As others said, get a lawyer, there are those that specialize in probate law. There is a book called the "Executor's Guide" that you may find helpful. Sorry for your loss.

[Black River Militaria CII]

First, ATF has no authority or interest in property issues, and this is solely a property issue.

The registered NFA needs to be secured with yur attorney, or locked up securely so that it is isolated and protected from theft, etc. You don't say what it is, but if the receiver is small enough, or the entire MG is small enough such as an UZI, it can go into a bank safety deposit box, for instance. If so, strip it down, secure the parts and put the receiver into the bank. Or find another way to securely store the receiver so no one has access to it except a designated representative of the estate.

You will need an estate lawyer to protect the interests of estate and your interests and deal with probate.

As noted above, once the distribution of the property is determined and settled, all claims settled against the estate by relatives, creditors, unknown alleged beneficiaries, the beneficiary of the MG can have it transferred to him or her, if the person is elgible to possess it or it can be sold under same protocols as any MG sale.

An MG in an estate is no different than any other possession left by the deceased as far as settlement and distribution to beneficiaries.

Good luck.

[MG08]

What Bob said. Without a will, the estate will go through a probate process as defined by state law. Get a lawyer. In PA. Generally as noted by others, the wife inherits property in "most" states. Again, since no will, the estate must be settled before property issues are dispersed. You will most likely end up transferring the gun from your mother ( as she will most likely be the sole beneficiary) to you via the usual form 4. I dont see any scenario where you get a free form 5 transfer on this .

[DZelenka]

You may not have to wait until the succession is complete and the property is distributed. I am not a Pennsylvania attorney and have no knowledge of Pennsylvania law but I am an attorney. In a Louisiana succession without a will you can move the court to have an administrator appointed to act on behalf of an estate while the succession is pending in court. That administrator, like an executor, has the power and authority to sign a form 4 if the estate wants to sell or transfer an mg. Contact a Pennsylvania attorney that understands succession law, hopefully who knows something about NFA transfers. He/she should be able to come up with a plan. All the ATF wants is an official document showing that the person signing on behalf of the estate has authority to do so. In Louisiana it is called Letters Testamentary. I haven't a clue what it is called in Pennsylvania.

 

Dan

[AlexanderA]

It seems to me that there are two possible avenues that could be pursued here. One is to go to court and have the mother appointed as the administrator of the estate. She could then file a Form 4, on behalf of the estate, for a tax-paid transfer of the item to the son.

 

The other way would be to file a Form 5 for a tax-free transfer to the mother as lawful heir (without having her appointed as administrator). Once that transfer is approved, she could file a Form 4 on her own behalf, for a tax-paid transfer to the son.

 

Of course this is all subject to the particulars of Pennsylvania law.