BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Bought me a savage 1828 A1 today with unusual markings, and the US and A1 looks as it is marked after the rest.What dos R.L.B. mean? And the infinity character/sign? Just proof marks?I think it's a 28 that has been changed to A1 later? Some Pictures: BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Ben74,That is a nice Savage manufactured 1928A1, produced prior to March 1941 I believe for the reason explained below, RLB is the inspectors stamp of Colonel Roy Lindsay Bowlin, US Army's chief inspector of Ordnance for the Rochester Ordnance District of New YorkIn 1940, when manufacture of the Model of 1928 was resumed, the contract for the production was awarded to the Savage Arms Company. It was not until the Lend Lease Act was passed in March 1941 and the addition of the ‘US’ prefix to the ‘Model of 1928’ model designation, that Army Inspectors of Ordnance, (AIO), stamps were added to Thompsons. The Savage Utica Plant was located within the Rochester Ordnance District of New York. In March 1941, Savage was still using an early roll stamp for the ‘MODEL OF 1928’ markings at the time. However, under the Lend Lease Act, the US government assumed ownership of the guns that were supplied to foreign armed forces, and the Act stated that the guns had to be marked as U.S. Property. So, the "US" and "A1" were retrospectively added by hand stamping them to the initial guns produced. I read it was somewhere around the 200,000-serial number range, Savage began using a new roll stamp marked ‘U.S. MODEL OF 1928 A1’, so everything looked tidier. As the U and the S were hand stamped, the full stops, (U.S.) after the U and the S, were not added. The RLB inspector stamp is found on most of the lend-lease 192A1s produced by Savage, as well as on weapons & equipment manufactured by Remington and Ithaca. Stay safeRichard Edited December 29, 2018 by rpbcps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 little rarer gun than most 1928s..looks refinished..polished a bit, too nice looking do upper and lower match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Thanks Richard. Very well explained. I was wondering if it could be a commercial gun that was shanghaied by the US state. The thing by the GEG stamp is it a Ordnance bomb? looks like a infinity character/sign. Hi Huggytree upper and lower do match. I do not think its refinished, been sitting in a old salt mine in a former ussr state sins wwll. (I do not remember the name).I know the guy who impoted them. Now i got this Savage one + a A.O.C. in the 49500 range. I had to A.O.C. the other in the 52000 range and there was a big difference in quality between them.Did A.O.C. change production routines or somthing around 50k? Old commercial parts? Thanks BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Nice find, very similar to my Savage with similar finish, remarking, and same color wood. Yes the bomb is the acceptance mark before it was changed to the cross cannons. Edited December 29, 2018 by Speeddemon02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Finish is amazing if original. Congrats. Pics are dark. It looks polished without machine marks in the finish. But thats probably just the lighting Lower looks full of machine marks. Upper looks smooth Odd stains in wood. Grease ?Very nice find Edited December 29, 2018 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 BEN74, Welcome to the board. If you look on the forward right side of the receiver do yo see any British proof marks? I have owned 28's with serial numbers both a little before and after yours. S- 125272 was prior to lend lease but S-153676, like your's, has had the US and A1 stamped later. It also has the British Broad Arrow, etc., on the forward receiver. Is your actuator checkered or smooth? I can't tell from the picture but, if original, it should be checkered. Regardless it looks like a nice Thompson. You will soon realize we love to analyse every Thompson that shows up here and we can never get enough pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Hi Canuck. No British proof marks, and the actuator is smooth on this one. Not original? I remember the actuator on A.O.C. s.nr 49500 is checkered and was smooth on s.nr.52000, same with selectors.Nobody knows what happened in production between them? Huggytree I think you see the odd stains in wood where the finish is a little worn off on the butt stock,The pistol grip is diferent in the finish (more worn?) than horisontal and butt.Maybe less finish on the pistol grip? I regret not buying one nice Savage manufactured previously, could have been given one with very low serial number.I had the impression that A.O.C. was the best, and most original. But not anymore.Think it was a You tube video that ruined it for me, made me change my mind. BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Ben74,I see Speeddemon02 already answered your question concerning the Ordnance bomb. The example in my collection, deactivated as I live in the UK, serial number S-162650, also has 'TOMMY GUN' stamped on the top of the receiver and British Enfield Markings, referred to by Canuck. It also has a smooth actuator. Throughout the war, the Thompson underwent design changes that would make it faster and cheaper to produce, the checkering on the selector and safety were eliminated, as it was on the actuator knob, for this purpose. The Lyman adjustable rear sight was eventually replaced with the 'L' type battle sight and finally the smooth finished barrel fins were left square cut, and eventually eliminated entirely. Stay safe Richard Edited December 29, 2018 by rpbcps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 Nice Tommy gun Richard. I see the bomb and R.L.B. are completely different on our guns. BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted December 29, 2018 Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 I think the difference is the way the stamps have been added, pressure on the stamp, although I may be wrong. Here is another example from my collection with the later cross cannons acceptance stamp. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 One in each hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2018 I do not think the bomb is the same, but I can be wrong. On mine it looks engraved? BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpbcps Posted December 30, 2018 Report Share Posted December 30, 2018 I do not think the bomb is the same, but I can be wrong. On mine it looks engraved? BEN74 I don't think they would have been engraving anything on weapons during the period that these were produced, they were looking at reducing time for production due to high demand, so I think it will be a stamp. stay safe Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted December 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 Here is a bether picture of the markings, the A1 is stamped so hard there is a notch there. Happy new year to all the Tommygunners here. BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adg105200 Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 Nice pair of guns you have there! The ordnance bomb does look a little different, but I can't recall if there are/were any variations before they switched to the crossed cannons.Happy new year to you as well! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted December 31, 2018 Report Share Posted December 31, 2018 Did not catch that at first either, nice call out on the bombs being different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adg105200 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Here is a picture of a (late #) 1928A1 nose section taken through a magnifier for clarity. Interesting difference between the two ordinance bombs. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hi. I read in the "Question: Savage Commercial Stock" post It is just the early WWII Savage buttstock that has numbers inside, but i found numbers in this one. Is this a butstock of a earlyer gun? BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adg105200 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Yes it appears to be a buttstock from a earlier ww2 production gun. Is there any makers stamps on the wood? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Where is the makers stamps on the wood usually placed? BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hi. I read in the "Question: Savage Commercial Stock" post It is just the early WWII Savage buttstock that has numbers inside, but i found numbers in this one. Is this a butstock of a earlyer gun? BEN74 1.jpg 2.jpgBEN74. Is your gun in the United States or are you in Europe? If the stock was in original condition, the numbers would all match. Your buttstock has been rebuilt at some point. If your gun came from one of the "Russian" guns located several years ago, the non-matched numbers are common. I haven't seen a Russian deactivated gun where the buttstock numbers matched, they seem to have all been rebuilt. The earlier numbered wood normally did not have maker mark stamps, just the numbers. Your gun is early enough to have a numbered buttstock, it was originally a 1928 Model, restamped as a 1928A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Where is the makers stamps on the wood usually placed? BEN74On the back end or the channel for the slide latch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hello. The gun is from a salt mine in the Ukraine, was stored there since wwll. BEN74. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN74 Posted January 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Where is the makers stamps on the wood usually placed? BEN74On the back end or the channel for the slide latch.Then there is no makers stamp. BEN74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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