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9mm conversion


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post-260088-0-64407500-1439571985_thumb.jpg

 

I have a question concerning the M3 9mm conversion.

Here in Italy many M3 were delivered to partisans, especially on the Langhe area (South Piedmont) and the central Liguria. These deliveries took place on the February/April 1945 on SOE controlled areas.

post-260088-0-14638900-1439572351_thumb.jpg (Here a SOE member with his M3)

 

The question is that withnesses tell that these guns were not .45 born and then converted with the conversion kit but were produced in 9mm.

Also the markings on the receiver told 9mm and were different from the common SMG.

 

Was the M3 ever build in 9mm on wartime?

 

 

 

 

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As far as I know , no M3 or M3A1 was ever produced in 9MM . They were all conversions . I would love to see a picture of a 9MM marked reciever as well as pictures of the mag well and magazine . As you know , the conversions used an adaptor and Sten mags . I would guess that one made from the factory 9MM M3 would have a mag well that would take a Sten mag without the need for an adaptor .

Chris

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Chris,

Go to page 32 in Frank I's book "THE US M3-#A1" as see a picture that you will love to see. A one of a kind.

Jim C

Tank you for your reply.

I know the book and the photo at page 32, it's a prototype, so I think few units produced, but here in Italy we got many thousand; all prototypes?

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Hi,

 

Just a guess from what I can see in the photographs, the middle picture in the first row looks like the magazine does not have a magwell adapter. This would lead me to think the gun is made as a 9mm M3. I've only experience with the reproduction conversion kits. These kits have a folded metal "adapter" to make a Sten magazine fit the M3.

 

 

Thoughts from others?

 

Grasshopper

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Jim , thanks for the proto-type reminder , forgot about that one .

Got Uzi , the WW2 adaptor had a lip that flared out around the bottom that prevented the adaptor from going in too far.

I do not see any adaptor in the above picture photo , but it may not run all the way around the front . The photo needs to show another 1/4 to 1/2 inch more of the rear of the well .Page 121 of the above book shows an original adaptor installed ,

But , as was said , we have no indication if this is a .rare 9mm or a standard .45 . Without that , the lack of an adaptor is moot.

Chris

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Not to my understand. If it was field added there is no way to stamp the gun in the field unless they did a hack job of it. It would be very clear VERY fast if you tried to insert a 45 magazine into a gun with a magazine adapter. It would not fit lending one to deduce that this is a clue that it might be in 9mm. It would only require a field stripping to change it from one caliber to the other (I'm speaking out of turn if the magazine adapter requires special attention) but the bolt and barrel would be a quick swap.

 

Like stated above-trying to figure out the M3 in the picture is almost impossible as the few areas that could answer the questions are conveniently missing or out of frame. A picture of the muzzle of the barrel, a shot of the entire mag well, or the ID markings would be enough to answer this guns past.

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Given the complexity of making a set of stamping dies I bet any prototype for 9mm would be the same receiver halfs as the standard 45 version but with a spacing bar spot welded into the magazine housing. So they probably would look identical but the interior of the magazine well and the calber stamping would be the only diffeences.

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Well then , if we are talking about a run of M3 / M3A1s that were standard .45 recievers but shipped out with the 9mm conversion installed and no .45 barrel assmly / bolt / mags with them , then I could see that happening . If it was known before hand those were going to be dropped behind enemy lines in 9MM with no supply of .45 in sight , they would save time / material in their production . This particular run could have been hush-hush ( remember the Liberator " flare pistol " ? ) and not stamped with the regular markings and , as most / all were airdropped and lost , we might not have found paperwork or not realized the meaning behind the paperwork when found .

Then again , it just might be the people dropping the guns just installed the kits into the guns being dropped and put the spare parts into their parts stock or just tossed them away.

Chris

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  • 3 years later...

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