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GEG Stamp inside 1928 Savage


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#21 rpbcps

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:04 PM

Richard,

Were the relic Thompson’s you have pictured found under water or under ground? Any other details as it their “story” ?

 

Afraid I do not know, I was just informed they were discovered in Norway and my attempts to find out more info. have been unsuccessful.

 

This one is definitely an underwater discovery though, the evidence is in the picture!

Attached File  Tommy gun diver find.jpg   64.15K   42 downloads

 

Stay safe

Richard


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#22 bug

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 07:26 PM

Wow, is that a cleaning rod in the barrel?


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#23 Autorotate

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:57 AM

Very cool photo! Thank you Richard!

I wonder if this was one of those cases where “surplus” weapons were dumped by the pile in the ocean. Heard stories from vets where excess weapons, both U.S. and captured enemy material was just pushed over the side.
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#24 rpbcps

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 01:59 PM

Very cool photo! Thank you Richard!

I wonder if this was one of those cases where “surplus” weapons were dumped by the pile in the ocean. Heard stories from vets where excess weapons, both U.S. and captured enemy material was just pushed over the side.

 

Not Thompson related, but an interesting tale.

 

During Opération Daguet, as the French called Operation Desert Storm, many French Foreign Legionnaires that served over there, picked up a few souvenirs, as soldiers the world over do. At the end of the operation, when they were sailing back to France, a day or so before arriving in Marseille, they were all warned that the Gendarmes would be awaiting the arrival of the ship and all kit would be searched. Anyone found with weapons, munitions etc. would be court-martialled and also risk civil prosecution.

 

So that night, I was told my one of my colleagues, ‘tonnes’ of pistols, AK’s, RPK’s, PKMs & Dragunovs, went over board into the Mediterranean with loads of munition too!

 

Ironically, when they arrived in Marseille and rolled off the ship, there was no Gendarmes awaiting their arrival..... and they then drove back to their base in Laudun!


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#25 av8tr

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 09:02 PM

Very cool photo! Thank you Richard!

I wonder if this was one of those cases where “surplus” weapons were dumped by the pile in the ocean. Heard stories from vets where excess weapons, both U.S. and captured enemy material was just pushed over the side.

 

Not Thompson related, but an interesting tale.

 

During Opération Daguet, as the French called Operation Desert Storm, many French Foreign Legionnaires that served over there, picked up a few souvenirs, as soldiers the world over do. At the end of the operation, when they were sailing back to France, a day or so before arriving in Marseille, they were all warned that the Gendarmes would be awaiting the arrival of the ship and all kit would be searched. Anyone found with weapons, munitions etc. would be court-martialled and also risk civil prosecution.

 

So that night, I was told my one of my colleagues, ‘tonnes’ of pistols, AK’s, RPK’s, PKMs & Dragunovs, went over board into the Mediterranean with loads of munition too!

 

Ironically, when they arrived in Marseille and rolled off the ship, there was no Gendarmes awaiting their arrival..... and they then drove back to their base in Laudun!

 

I heard a very similar story first hand from a US WWII vet.  He personally dropped a Thompson over the side on his voyage home from Europe.  In his case as well, no inspection upon arrival.


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#26 WCG

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 09:18 AM

Hi again,

I've been digging into the markings on these "British" Thompsons, and talking to the Curator of the National Firearms Collection at Leeds.

We regularly swap information and research, and I know him very well.

He says that as far as his records are concerned the Crown-W (so-called Woolwich inspection mark) is NOT a recognised British Inspection mark. He can find no record of the mark or even similar marks in war Department records. He also questions any connection of this to Woolwich, as Woolwich Arsenal was not involved in the inspection of small arms during WW2.

However, He says that the mark is claimed to be Dutch by military historians in Holland!

 

I'm collecting a large quantity of Thompsons from Holland this week, approximately 50 of them, a mixed bag of 28s 28A1s and M1s and will check all of them and report back.

 

The plot thickens as we would say over here.


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#27 rpbcps

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 11:48 AM

Hi again,

I've been digging into the markings on these "British" Thompsons, and talking to the Curator of the National Firearms Collection at Leeds.

We regularly swap information and research, and I know him very well.

He says that as far as his records are concerned the Crown-W (so-called Woolwich inspection mark) is NOT a recognised British Inspection mark. He can find no record of the mark or even similar marks in war Department records. He also questions any connection of this to Woolwich, as Woolwich Arsenal was not involved in the inspection of small arms during WW2.

However, He says that the mark is claimed to be Dutch by military historians in Holland!

 

I'm collecting a large quantity of Thompsons from Holland this week, approximately 50 of them, a mixed bag of 28s 28A1s and M1s and will check all of them and report back.

 

The plot thickens as we would say over here.

 

I did read somewhere in the past that the 'Crown W' was a Dutch marking. That is what is good about this forum, always learning and discovering new things from very knowledgeable members.

 

Stay safe

Richard.


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#28 JJX

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 12:46 PM

Hi again,

I've been digging into the markings on these "British" Thompsons, and talking to the Curator of the National Firearms Collection at Leeds.

We regularly swap information and research, and I know him very well.

He says that as far as his records are concerned the Crown-W (so-called Woolwich inspection mark) is NOT a recognised British Inspection mark. He can find no record of the mark or even similar marks in war Department records. He also questions any connection of this to Woolwich, as Woolwich Arsenal was not involved in the inspection of small arms during WW2.

However, He says that the mark is claimed to be Dutch by military historians in Holland!

 

I'm collecting a large quantity of Thompsons from Holland this week, approximately 50 of them, a mixed bag of 28s 28A1s and M1s and will check all of them and report back.

 

The plot thickens as we would say over here.

 

I did read somewhere in the past that the 'Crown W' was a Dutch marking. That is what is good about this forum, always learning and discovering new things from very knowledgeable members.

 

Stay safe

Richard.

I agree that the Dutch did use a crown and a W, but that does not necessarily mean that the British did not use similar markings. The Thompsons depicted in TDs book have a 'w' inside the crown.

The guns that I have seen with the Dutch Crown and W had the crown above the 'w'.

I once had a Browning 1922 pistol with the slide marked such as in this photo.

I have also seen a much smaller version, more like a proof mark, with the 'w' under the crown.

 

The W was for the Dutch Queen Wilhelmina

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#29 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 10:39 AM

Hi again,

I've been digging into the markings on these "British" Thompsons, and talking to the Curator of the National Firearms Collection at Leeds.

We regularly swap information and research, and I know him very well.

He says that as far as his records are concerned the Crown-W (so-called Woolwich inspection mark) is NOT a recognised British Inspection mark. He can find no record of the mark or even similar marks in war Department records. He also questions any connection of this to Woolwich, as Woolwich Arsenal was not involved in the inspection of small arms during WW2.

However, He says that the mark is claimed to be Dutch by military historians in Holland!

 

I'm collecting a large quantity of Thompson's from Holland this week, approximately 50 of them, a mixed bag of 28s 28A1s and M1s and will check all of them and report back.

 

The plot thickens as we would say over here.

I spoke with someone at Leeds about the W mark, I was told the same thing, he had no knowledge of it. BUT I did find documentation verifying it is a Woolwich mark. As  I recall there was something about weapons sent to Canada. There were artillery gun barrels marked with the W mark. 


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#30 laurencen

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Posted 22 March 2019 - 12:00 PM

had some time to kill somade a copy of the GEG stamp to the sizes of the original, for information I altered the G profile from original and added a X on the side, not sure how a original one was engraved, I assume a pantograph of the time, this one I engraved the letters in a piece of graphite using the CNC mill, then aligned it to the 9/16 piece of drill rod in the EDM and burnt the letters in the end, finishing up heat treating

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#31 AlanDavid

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 04:13 AM

The W in a crown mark certainly is a British mark. It is shown in a publication put out by AID or Armaments Inspection Department. This document comes from the library in the Royal Armouries in Leeds. The copy I copied is dated October 1939. Another version exists dated 1918 with this mark, but it may have been issued under diffrentrent authority. The AID is separate to Woolwich, not to say that they did not have a close working relationship.

 

Regards

 

AlanD

Sydney

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#32 TD.

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 09:29 AM

WCG,

I am with AlanDavid regarding the use of the Woolwich mark by the British. Ask the Curator of Leeds to stop by the library at the National Firearms Centre, Leeds, and check out my book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story. Please refer him to pages 52 - 54, regarding the use of the Woolwich mark on the Thompson guns purchased by the British MoS under the early provisions of cash and carry. My book is also in the Royal Armouries Museum, Leeds. I am very interested to learn if this information, along with the source documentation posted by AlanDavid, above, (footnote 191 in my book) is not correct. I want my works to stand the test of time; if there is an error, I want to know about it. Thanks! 

 

Good luck with the 50 Thompson guns from Holland. We look forward to your report. 

 

 
 


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#33 WCG

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:55 AM

Hi Guys,

I mailed the NFC curator, and sent him a copy of the document, we'll see what he says, but that mark looks exactly right and I agree that it doesn't look like any Dutch mark I've seen.

 

Of the batch that came in, AO-61843 was a 1928, S-350590 was a 1928A1, and neither had the Crown-W on them, all the rest were M1 and M1A1 in pretty crappy condition. 

 

There are another 150 to be collected soon, coming from Germany but probably out of eastern Europe originally. I'll keep looking.

 

I bought a copy of Great Britain the Tommy Gun Story, and also American Thunder, but surprisingly neither seems to have a comprehensive serial number list. Does one exist?

Cheers

Richard


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