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A '28 New Kid on the Block........


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Hello Gents,

 

Allow me to introduce my early Savage Model 1928, serial number 39892.

 

This older spec deactivated Tommy was listed for sale at an outdoor sporting goods store east of Toronto. When I questioned the seller about its former owner, I was told that he was a "walk-in". How unfortunate.

 

It's in lovely, used shape, complete and matching numbers for both upper and lower receiver. The welding has been carefully and tastefully done. The bolt moves back and forth, but no cock and click. The trigger, mag release and chequered selector levers move, and the butt stock is detachable. Butt stock numbered parts are 8116. The receiver has the New York address, with the British broad arrow and crown marks by the breech. The Cutts compensator does not have the bullet logo, but has 1927 and 1928 dates. The barrel is pinned at the breech, but shows great rifling down to that pin. The mag is a Seymour, and a tiny tig weld joins the follower to the body lip. No ugly rivet. The wood is complete with no cracks or splits, and all original screws. The Lyman sight is complete and functional.

 

I would say that Savage presented this via AO in the third order to the Brits, some time around later October of 1940. I am actively hunting for an L drum within Canada (Canadian laws prohibit me from ordering outside of this country).

 

Check out what the sender marked on three sides of the shipping box. Thank gawd Posties can't read, ha-ha.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

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Edited by James Leavelle
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Welcome to the Forum! Great looking Thompson. Please post more photos showing the marking on both sides of the receiver. It looks like the right side of the receiver has the Auto-Ordnance with New York at the rear of the receiver and Patent Numbers. Would like to see the inspector markings that should be on the left side of the receiver.

Thanks in advance,

Sandman1957

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I've tossed in a pic of a Toronto copper having a go with a '21 and C drum, taken in 1937. I was with them, but 45 years after that!

 

I noticed that the manual states using "whale oil" as a lubricant. I still have my 47 year-old container of sperm whale oil, bought from Dixie Gun Works. Makes the actuator travel sooooo smoothly, now.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

Edited by James Leavelle
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A question now comes to mind - if the butt stock on my '28 is serial numbered 8116, how were butt stocks numbered? Do all '21 Thompsons have their butt stocks numbered to the gun itself? If so, do I have a '21 butt stock on my '28?

 

Just wondered.......

 

Bill

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Hi Bill,

Welcome to the Thompson forum in the USA. This is the best gun forum on the Internet.

 

Congratulations on what appears to be a deac in Canada. We have members from Canada that own deacs and live guns. I am sure they will also welcome you to the forum.

 

You have a very nice Model of 1928 Savage Thompson that shows plenty of use over the years. If it could only talk! S-39892 is an early Savage Thompson with the second variation Savage receiver. The second variation has the New York, N.Y. U.S.A. address and Patent NUMBERS. This variation extends until the very late 79,000 serial number range. FYI - The first variation Savage receiver has Patent DATES, similar to what is found on the Colt's. The Bridgeport, Connecticut address replaces the New York address for the third variation and begins in the early 80,000 serial number range.

 

Everything about S-39892 appears original based on the pictures you sent. The knurled fire control levers, the no-hole magazine catch, the milled ejector and knurled actuator knob were all standard on the early Savage guns. That these parts have stayed with the matching numbered frame makes your Thompson a real prize.

 

I cannot tell much about what appears to be British markings on the right side of the receiver nose. A close-up in focus picture would probably provide more information on this subject. The Broad Arrow marking does appear to be British. The GEG marking is from Auto-Ordnance Inspector (and Chief Engineer), George E. Goll, who helped Savage put the Thompson gun back in production during World War II. The GEG stamp is common on all Savage made Thompson guns.

 

The grip mount has a Square S marking that is from Stevens Arms, a sister company to Savage. The earliest Savage Thompsons featured a "S" marked grip mount. When Savage realized the production of the Thompson gun would extend past the first contract of 10,000 guns, subcontractors were hired to manufacture certain parts.

 

The Lyman rear sight and Cutts Compensator look original to S-39892 and are correct.

 

I would like to see pictures of the buttstock, especially the numbering on the stock, butt plate and slide assembly. This is an area that has not been fully explored as most owners never remove the butt plate or slide assembly. Based on what I see, your early Savage appears all original.

 

The "P" or proof mark on top of the barrel collar is not common, but has been seen in the past on a number of guns. I bet you will find the grip mount rests on the 21st fin, not counting the barrel collar (the part that rests against the receiver and is marked with an Index line on the right side). I would guess you will find a "S" mark on the left side of the barrel collar.

 

If you have not already purchased a copy, I highly recommend Frank Iannmico's, American Thunder III, to learn more about your early Savage Thompson. My book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story, will provide a lot of information on how S-39382 was probably shipped to Great Britain during the cash and carry program.

 

Again, welcome to the Forum.

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Hi Tom,

 

Great to meet you. And yes, I have your book and have read it through. Thanks again!

 

You're correct, in that the grip mount rests on the 21st fin. I'll include a better pic of the broad arrow, with a crowned.....number or letter?.... underneath it. I've gone cross-eyed trying to determine if it's a letter or a number under that crown.

 

Also attached are pics of the stock part numbers.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

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The pics, in order taken, should be:

 

(39) back of butt plate

(40) bottom of the steel stock mount to receiver

(43) a better pic of the steel stock mount

(44) rear of stock at butt plate, showing space for oiler (alas, missing)

(45) stock, under the steel stock mount

 

 

I understand the logic of matching numbers, so that if the butt stock required disassembly, the steel furniture original to the stock would not be mixed with another. Each metal part must have slight differences, hence the numbered metal pieces to the numbered stock. But why #8116 to #39892? Is Model 1921 #8116 (if known) missing its butt stock, or have a differing numbered butt?

 

All of the screws look to match on my three pieces of wood. I was careful in disassembling the butt stock bits, so not difficult to strip if others wanted to check their own Tommyguns.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

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Welcome aboard! Great looking Thompson! I have 2 deactivated (1 MS1, and one '28A1) that I pieced together that I have displayed in my room.

 

Looks like it could tell some stories!

 

Andrew

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Bill,

 

Nice original Savage Thompson you have! I agree with TD about it being all original. Regarding the numbers on your buttstock, they are merely production numbers so the buttstock and hand-fitted metal parts could be re-united after the bluing process. The numbers have nothing to do with the serial numbers of the guns, themselves. In fact, only the very earliest Savage buttstocks have the production number stamped on the metal slide-attachment hardware. Sometimes you see the number proceeded by an S, but the more common marking is just as it appears on your gun. By the time the 1928A1 guns were being produced they dropped the number on the slide attachment and only numbered the buttstock and butt plate.

 

Another interesting feature of the numbered Savage buttstocks is that they apparently only used four-digit production numbers and started over at 0001 to 9999 with each successive order for buttstocks. I have never seen, and I don't believe there are any, five or six digit original production numbers on Savage buttstocks. In contrast, the Colt production buttstocks are numbered into the five-digit range as there were 15,000 Colt guns manufactured, although like the Savage guns the buttstocks were not mated to the receiver numbers.

 

Based on the fact that your gun is likely a second or third production order, they would have been well onto the five-digit serial numbers on the receivers, but we have yet to see an original five-digit numbered Savage buttstock. No way to tell if your buttstock got switched from one gun to another decades ago, but it is an all original early Savage buttstock, so based on the other early parts on your gun that haven't been changed, I would bet it is likely original to the gun.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by gijive
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Thank you, gijive.

 

My '28 is a Third Production order, and I won't let numbers start dancing in my head. As you said, all the bits on my '28 are early period, so why not this stock, too.

 

It has seen more use than what you might expect on a Home Guard gun, but then again, what are the odds that everything would still be matching if used for the following four and a half years in service?

 

Now, where to find an L drum..............................?

 

Bill

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James Leavelle,

Again, thank you for sharing pictures of your early Savage Thompson. I especially like the information concerning the butt stock. As you can tell, gijive knows his Thompson wood.

 

Regarding your search for a L drum, I have heard in the past on the forum that members who live outside of the USA sometimes purchase the toy MGC L drums from Japan to use as display drums. Also, the Type X or 10 round Thompson drum makes for a nice display piece. I don't know if it would it be legal to import such a drum into Canada. Perhaps, one of the new Taiwan L drums without the rotor assembly. Maybe others with more experience in this area will join in. I would think if you had both drum bodies, the winding key and rear clip, something could be fashioned to hold it all together for a display drum.

 

Check your Private Messages or PM at the top of the Board. I am going to send you a PM on another subject.

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Thanks Tom.

 

Canada does not allow the importation of non-firing copies of firearms; pistols, long guns, or automatic ones. The MGC Thompson from Japan, or the Shoei replicas of the FG42, will be seized and most likely destroyed, with no compensation to the purchaser. At this very moment, the Prime Minister has initiated a plan to "buy back assault style firearms" from Canadians who presently own them. That represents 1500 different types of guns. There are reportedly 150,000 to 200,000 guns of this type legally owned. The cost to the Canadian taxpayer for a "buy back" programme will be in the region of $300,000,000 to $400,000,000.

 

The Taiwan L drum mags would need to be pre-pinned to only five rounds, and when they hit our Customs at the border, further examination would be made, even without the rotor assembly . That should be enough to put off the Taiwanese manufacturers from importing to here. There is also the Denix made non-functioning copies, but how they would get into this country is unknown, particularly at this time.

 

All in all, we have a very distressing situation for gun owners here at the moment.

 

 

Bill

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It's all about supply and demand, depending on the type of gun, and what's available. There's a large company west of Toronto in Ontario that sells deactivated guns of all kinds, ranging from pistols, to submachine guns, to machine guns. They can be from $1000 to $11,000 Canadian and more (pistols, FNs to Vickers). If you want a specific gun and they don't have it, let them know your wants. Keep in mind that they probably won't ship to the U.S. There is also a Canadian dealer on the East Coast, who also has a web site in the States. You'll pay dealer prices, remember.

 

If we had gun shows up and running (there is one show running here in Nova Scotia, but it's small), the chances of finding something at a better price would be greater. But until then, it's "Catch as catch can". I was at the right place at the right time for my '28.

 

Bill

Edited by James Leavelle
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