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Is there any update on the repro 1921 actuators?


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38 replies to this topic

#21 coastie70

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:16 PM

PM sent.
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#22 benedw60

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:35 PM

Coastie70: no message was in my inbox?
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#23 coastie70

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:29 PM

Sorry, I meant I sent it to Mnshooter regarding his 21 actuator.
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#24 mnshooter

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:26 PM

Actuator is sold.

Thanks.


Edited by mnshooter, 01 May 2019 - 10:36 PM.

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#25 thompsonteenager

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:02 AM

They break identical to the originals. Possibly too hard. He blames the design/harmonics/recoil slamming, etc.
His contractor used 1921 prints, and tried for the same N-2 material.
 
Arguably it is better to use a cut down Savage 1928, since it doesn't break like Doug's/Colts.. Unfortunately PK is not motivated to make a few extra, or even cut down sent in actuators for ~1 year+ now.
 
Not one person attempts to compete with Doug in the TSMG market.. Not even "Bob". Doug is blinder than a bat, and near the end of his swing. He can't read, or see much. Tracy Hill should have a copy of the prints, as does Doug.. and maybe a few others.  Doug claims all his work will be thrown in the dumpster outside when he passes. "Somebody" needs to look into cashing him out before that happens, for the informational value at the very least. He has the most technical information on the "Early" parts that are coveted by so many.
 
(310) 457-6400 Speak slow, loud, and don't waste his time.

Wish I had the colt prints lol
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#26 thompsonteenager

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:05 AM

They break identical to the originals. Possibly too hard. He blames the design/harmonics/recoil slamming, etc.
His contractor used 1921 prints, and tried for the same N-2 material.
 
Arguably it is better to use a cut down Savage 1928, since it doesn't break like Doug's/Colts.. Unfortunately PK is not motivated to make a few extra, or even cut down sent in actuators for ~1 year+ now.
 
Not one person attempts to compete with Doug in the TSMG market.. Not even "Bob". Doug is blinder than a bat, and near the end of his swing. He can't read, or see much. Tracy Hill should have a copy of the prints, as does Doug.. and maybe a few others.  Doug claims all his work will be thrown in the dumpster outside when he passes. "Somebody" needs to look into cashing him out before that happens, for the informational value at the very least. He has the most technical information on the "Early" parts that are coveted by so many.
 
(310) 457-6400 Speak slow, loud, and don't waste his time.

Also don't want his work to go away someone here should get it
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#27 ron_brock

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:24 AM

Wish I had the colt prints lol

They are in The Ultimate Thompson Book. The challenge I see with the sale is the price being asked versus what you get. All of Dougs programs and development are on very old outdated equipment. If one were to take on the venture everything would need to be redeveloped, including all programs and likely all work holding redesigned to work on modern equipment. Many people have looked into this already. On the flip side, the expected return is very low.

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#28 thompsonteenager

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:44 PM

Wish I had the colt prints lol
They are in The Ultimate Thompson Book. The challenge I see with the sale is the price being asked versus what you get. All of Dougs programs and development are on very old outdated equipment. If one were to take on the venture everything would need to be redeveloped, including all programs and likely all work holding redesigned to work on modern equipment. Many people have looked into this already. On the flip side, the expected return is very low.

Ron
Yah id persue it but id diversify beond the thompson gun I just like designs as well lol
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#29 laurencen

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:43 PM

 

 

Wish I had the colt prints lol

They are in The Ultimate Thompson Book. The challenge I see with the sale is the price being asked versus what you get. All of Dougs programs and development are on very old outdated equipment. If one were to take on the venture everything would need to be redeveloped, including all programs and likely all work holding redesigned to work on modern equipment. Many people have looked into this already. On the flip side, the expected return is very low.

Ron

 

 

 

Ron, the other issue would be shops today use the computer to aid machining process, likely all Doug's machines I assume are numerical programmed the old way by entering each individual line of numbers, there are not too many shops who could even understand the code let alone make changes, and if he programmed in incremental one number changed screws the whole program.

 

in the 70s these type of machines were cutting edge and some used punch tapes to run the machine, better ones had the cassette tapes then the 5 1/4 floppy came along,  today we rarely touch the machine other than tooling in the changer and clamping the work in the fixture, to make the upper receiver we would take a round bar in the chuck then press go, it would rotate and mill the complete receiver less the end of the nose and barrel threads, that would be a second operation, Doug likely has fixtures to hold 4 6 or even 8 to the table where we would make one at a time start to finish


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#30 benedw60

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:57 PM

Nostalgia on how the Thompson looks and feels is as important as how any of the parts measures. Computer aided manufacturing (CAM) software generates 100,000 little moves that will leave tool marks all over the place. These tool marks will cause any thompson fan to reject the parts.
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#31 Adg105200

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:52 PM

Nostalgia on how the Thompson looks and feels is as important as how any of the parts measures. Computer aided manufacturing (CAM) software generates 100,000 little moves that will leave tool marks all over the place. These tool marks will cause any thompson fan to reject the parts.


Also, with modern equipment, this could easily be corrected by making the final surface finish passes with larger face mill to replicate the original rougher surface finish of a ww2 gun, or a smooth finish of a Colt, no?

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#32 benedw60

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:19 PM

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=-WFKNmH_6w0

These link is a good example of modern machining methods. Most of the software out there automatically compile the tool path of the part. I guess you could generate each feature by its own subchain, but then you might as well just write the Gcode by hand.
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#33 laurencen

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Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:31 PM

Nostalgia on how the Thompson looks and feels is as important as how any of the parts measures. Computer aided manufacturing (CAM) software generates 100,000 little moves that will leave tool marks all over the place. These tool marks will cause any thompson fan to reject the parts.

 

not sure the 100,000 moves, use a face mill to finish the top and sides and its one move, if you want the finish like a hand feed just use a dull tool bit, where would the finish on a original be better than my machine center, I can achieve a mirror finish with the right tooling, now I will confess if the same tools used on the original were used on a CNC I doubt you could tell much difference in finish


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#34 michaelkih

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:17 AM

Do his reproductive actuators look exactly like the 1921 actuators?
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#35 thompsonteenager

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 06:02 AM

Lol maybe I should go to machining school over the summer
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#36 mnshooter

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Posted 03 May 2019 - 07:42 AM

Do his reproductive actuators look exactly like the 1921 actuators?

 

Not sure about his reproductive capabilities, but his 1921 actuators differ in several subtle ways from the originals.

I had always assumed Doug did this to identify his from originals, aside from the large "R" on the side.

But, Doug told me his are made exactly to the original specs; that would mean all my known originals are not to spec.

The differences are real, but so slight they are only apparent in a side by side comparison, and then only to a very discerning eye.

Mostly invisible when installed, and definitely not worth worrying about if you want one of his for a shooter, or even for display.


Edited by mnshooter, 07 May 2019 - 09:41 AM.

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#37 Bob

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 08:37 AM

They break identical to the originals. Possibly too hard. He blames the design/harmonics/recoil slamming, etc.

His contractor used 1921 prints, and tried for the same N-2 material.

 

Arguably it is better to use a cut down Savage 1928, since it doesn't break like Doug's/Colts.. Unfortunately PK is not motivated to make a few extra, or even cut down sent in actuators for ~1 year+ now.

 

Not one person attempts to compete with Doug in the TSMG market.. Not even "Bob". Doug is blinder than a bat, and near the end of his swing. He can't read, or see much. Tracy Hill should have a copy of the prints, as does Doug.. and maybe a few others.  Doug claims all his work will be thrown in the dumpster outside when he passes. "Somebody" needs to look into cashing him out before that happens, for the informational value at the very least. He has the most technical information on the "Early" parts that are coveted by so many.

 

(310) 457-6400 Speak slow, loud, and don't waste his time.

Unfortunately original 1928 actuators ears break as well. While cleaning out piles of junk in the shop I found one and remembered the day it broke. Normal mag dump and something went flying past my face. Looked down and saw one of the ears missing. I set the damn thing down last night (and now can't remember where I put it) to take a picture of it... Gettin old ain't for pussies!


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#38 Mk VII

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 05:15 PM

I remember loading programs off punch tape, we had one that was so long they had had to split it into two tapes. You fitted the first one, pressed 'go' and had to wind the bobbin out at the right speed because the tape reader didn't have enough puff to pull the tape thru without misreading it, then load the second one and repeat, and if it misread it you had to start all over again, don't regret those days passing.


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#39 laurencen

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Posted 07 May 2019 - 07:29 PM

yes the punch tape programs, somewhere in my junk room there is a state of the art punch tape reader that copies onto 5 1/4 floppy, that was a real advancement 


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