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"Interesting" 1917A1 BMG in Morphy's auction...


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Item #1047 in the upcoming Morphy's Auction, the 1917A1 listed as "Interesting...." appears to me to be one of a few 1917A1s allegedly built from parts held by the Pueblo Arsenal in CO in the 1960's and either registered when built or in the '68 Amnesty. The right side plate was not from a factory 1917A1 but was made and assembled to the receiver box. The hand stamping of the plate ID, serial, etc is evident, and is in the correct location and serial number range but is clearly not factory. I owned one of the companions to this gun in the early 1970s that included a non-original remanufactured steel front endcap on it and had a similar new made plate with hand stamped ID, serial etc. The person who told me about these BMGs didn't know how many 1917A1's were assembled at that time but knew of these as well as some of the history of the arsenal and the small arms handled there.

This gun is one of a few examples of "remanufactured" MGs that are C+R because of having been made and registered before the end of the '68 Amnesty.

The curator of this auction apparently didn't consider the hand stamping of the info of much interest although he was aware that something was different about this gun. I am skeptical of the ATF confirmation noted. So, it is not a factory 1917A1 but, in my opinion, it should transfer C+R due to the alleged date of registration.

Interesting.....FWIW

Edited by Black River Militaria CII
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What is that block welded onto the receiver above the serial number, see pic. Is that normal or does it block the feed way so the gun can not be fired?

post-1716-0-38717700-1588593611_thumb.jpeg

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Rear cartridge stop which is riveted in factory production. The assembly on this plate looks like the stop had been removed from a plate and the rivet remained with enough stub to fit into the hole and be tack welded. Part of the hole is visible.

How this gun and others like it wound up registered will never be known, but the poor quality of the construction is indicative of how little value they had at that time.

Edited by Black River Militaria CII
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The value is low because it's been torched, bent, cut, welded, etc. It's possible it's C+R, but their trace goes back to the 70's according to the description. A gamble at best. I'll admit I'm a little curious about this relic, but if they researched it and didn't mark it as C+R it's probably not at this time. A home build, but it could be a screaming deal and if someone want's to put the work in it sure could be polished up! You can't make it look any worse that's for sure. The price may have already peaked IMO and since it's not a factory gun the minty DLO is a jewel by comparison and you save yourself a ton of time, depending on what it finishes out at.

Lots of cool guns in this one. There's a few I'll be bidding on.

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I looked at my notes on the gun that I bought years ago which, in my experience, is the same type, and similar constructiin appearance and has the identical hand stamped logo on it. I purchased the gun in 1981 from the person who bought the guns from the Pueblo Arsenal. From my notes, the gun came from a Mr. Lee, and he said the gun had been registered on a form 4467 in the '68 Amnesty. I took the gun to Doug Offinger in Stamford, CT that winter to get it reparked and we went over it's details. I eventually sold the gun to a friend, who didn't want it since it was not a factory original gun, so I bought it back and later sold it to a C+R licensee to whom the transfer was approved with no issues. Of course there is lots of questions that are still unanswered.

To what ATF "trace" do you refer Jeff? There is no such thing outside an FOIA. Does Morphys have an exemption from the prohibition on disclosure of NFRTR information? Possibly, but I think not. Inside help from an ATF/NFA employee? Possibly but NFRTR research requests are controlled and leave an access trail so "casual", non-official inquiry is no longer easily possible. No more calling in with a serial number and asking it the MG is C+R by date and form of original registration. At least that is what I understand from those with whom I have had contact over many years. Casual inquiries about the registration status of an MG, specifically if it is C+R eligible in my recent experience for an MG in my inventory, are now required to be done by letter and addressed to Tech Branch for their assessment. Having been to many auctions at James Julias and other houses and seen "interesting" hardware as well as paperwork on some guns that was never "researched", why the interest in this gun? If the issue is important, the offering at auction of any gun with similar hardware or paperwork anomalies should be postponed and an FOIA pursued to try and confirm the actual paperwork provenance of the gun. In my opinion, the alleged "research" on this gun's original registration is suspect.

Regardless, the gun's condition speaks for itself but it has "good" paperwork which holds it's value and some enterprising fellow can have fun rehabilitating it. FWIW

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