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New to Me C&R STEN Mk II


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The C Arrow with 2 letters underneath is an inspectors mark, Ill try and get photos of my Faz today with the same marks.

 

With regards to the barrel, at some point in its rotation, you should find the grouping in vertical line with the sights and either high or low. There were numbered forsights to compensate for height and if you cut the weld there is some lateral movement. If the grouping doesnt move around the centre line as the barrel rotates, it could indicate the barrel seat isnt installed correctly and thats a big fix. It also could indicate a tube gun as the originals were jigged at assembly.

I rotated the barrel and it did not move the point of impact sufficiently to center up the point of impact right to left. How do I tell if the seat is installed correctly or not? Can i indicate it in a lathe somehow? (I personally would not be doing it.) The only other thing I can think of is maybe changing barrels and barrel nuts.

 

The possibility of it being a tube gun had already crossed my mind. I looked all over the tube and cannot find any markings whatsoever. The Form 3 (eForm) that I received lists the manufacturer as "STEN" and the model as "STENMKII". It also uses the correct FF serial number found on the magazine well. What other indication of origin can I rely on? I emailed a FOIA request this morning; however, that will likely take a while to sort out. If it is C&R, it will likely be either amnesty registered or an importation form (6?), correct?

 

Dan

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i had a desert eagle that was 24" off at 25 yards..my solution was custom sights for my .44 setup and a red dot for my .50 setup....i suspect your going to have to do the same...make a custom front sight or put a red dot mount on it...

 

luckily mine is on up/down, but its off 6" to the left at 15 yards.....i can just bang the front sight over.....your front sight might be off the gun :)

 

This isn't going to work for me. C&R gun.

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you can make or buy a mount that replaces your front barrel nut....they made AR 15 style ones with rails a while back......

 

mine shoots 6" to the right and i tried rotating the barrel around...it did nothing...i moved it 5x and it always shot on the same spot...but mine is a tube gun....not a C&R...i just have to tweak my sights over 1/4" or so and im spot on...

 

the front sight is just a triangle...you can make a larger or smaller one, move it to one side...doubt anyone would notice as its just a triangle piece of metal...if it were larger or smaller 1/4-1/2" i doubt it would show much to an average shooter you'd meet on a range...

 

tack a rail on a spare barrel nut...mount a red dot....it will look awesome :(

Edited by huggytree
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Hopefully some of these may make useful reference photos.

 

This ones an assortment of some of the collection.

 

post-1331-0-00726000-1534277610_thumb.jpg

 

Comparison of welds from an original finish Faz Mk2 and a Fin refurb Faz Mk2.

 

post-1331-0-02592000-1534277651_thumb.jpg

 

You can see the welds on the head here, yours has extra welding around the head which may be to reinforce a week weld or one that's been ground down to far.

 

post-1331-0-12800800-1534279048_thumb.jpg

 

Close up of the welds and the CF arrow marking

 

post-1331-0-87248700-1534279005_thumb.jpg

 

Fin cocking handle, this one is from the Fin Mk2 shown above but I removed the handle as I intend to refinish it at some point.

 

post-1331-0-83784900-1534277695_thumb.jpg

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I appreciate the photos. I keep reference photos of the various guns that I have. The one thing that I am seeing with they various pictures of STENs that I have looked at is the great deal of inconsistency. It may just be the small sample size. Thank you again. I’ll keep everyone informed as I learn things. Do you know a source for original barrels? I may get a couple to see if that will help me sight in? if you actually call it that.

 

Dan

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I'd think it's an original gun. In 73' there was zero demand for sten tube guns since originals were cheap. Ideally if it were a tube gun, the tube would have been marked with the makers info, but rules were more lax then so that's not 100% and home builder form 1 guns were even more lax. My C+R's are only marked on the mag well, even though it's again, a fairly small sample. We do know for sure it's C+R by 2023 at the least.

 

So I just looked at your pictures on the first page and it looks like there was weld in the chamber cleaned up? If so, I'd think pre-68 dewat, so definitely C+R. In one of the pics the barrel looks crooked, but it may be the photo angle. You'd have to strip it and chuck up the barrel and turn it on a drill press or lathe, or a piece of rod through the barrel to see if it's straight to the receiver. The rod just needs to be long and straight, not necessarily close to the bore dimension as long as you can gauge the distance off the receiver walls as you rotate it by hand it will give you a rough idea? HTH

Edited by johnsonlmg41
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The welds on my C&R Faz Sten look exactly the same, and I know it was an amnesty registered bring back. I bought it strait from the family. So.....

 

Also, in the Collector Grade Sten book it shows Faz magwell welds looking exactly like this, so I think it's fine.

 

One thing, mine does have the safety hole, but it is a FL and not an FF gun.

Edited by michaelkih
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Its not the mag well welds I see issue with (Not that any of the welds are really an issue), its the welding on the head and the side plates to tube that have been ground smooth. The only large scale grinding was done by the Finns who smoothed all of theres during refurb. The assembly plants never bothered grinding welds down however some component contractors did to varying degrees, mag wells being an example, TMH covers being another. The additional welding on the head suggests some one, possibly an armourer in service or a post war owner has strengthened a week or loose head. This isn't a problem and it's just an extra part to it's history.

 

post-1331-0-65238400-1534415592_thumb.jpg

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  • 1 year later...

I remembered Dan's post, so bringing to the top for a couple of reasons.

 

First, my C&R STEN doesn't have the little hole in the left side of the receiver (there's some history in the above thread). Is this like the MP40 where the German's modified the receiver and bolt handle to lock the bolt in place to prevent an accidental discharge? My C&R BNZ 41 MP40 has the original curved charging handle with no such modification, which I personally like better. I use the strap discussed in other posts but it's more for show because I don't carry it around with a loaded magazine in the mag well (except at the range when shooting it). FWIW, I have 10 original MP40 magazines and they all fit in the mag well fine (discussion about MP40 magazines in other post). I guess the German's were more precise.

 

Robert

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The second reason was my gun shot a few inches high and to the right at seven yeards, and you may notice from the photos there is a little white paint on the front sight (someone before me put on the white paint). When I moved the white paint mark under the bullseye I was pretty much dead center. All shots were in the vital zone so a few inches is no big deal to me (before I adjust using the white paint mark).

 

Looking at the above post, I removed the barrel (mine is pinned inside the collar--unlike Machine Gun Mike's) but there was no marks where the barrel goes in the receiver to signify anyone had ever rotated the barrel to see where the best location was for accuracy purposes. Perhaps if I play with it some the point of impact may change (at least based on the above post comments).

 

Robert

Edited by Robert Henley
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The small hole you refer to is a 1944 onwards modification for the Mk5 cocking handle. As you say, it locks the breech block forward so that a bang or knock couldnt move the block rearwards, picking up a round on the way forward from the magazine and cause an ND.
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Have a look at the muzzle end of the barrel for a line or marking rather than the breech end.

 

You can try rotating the barrel around to improve the POI, you can also put the barrel in a lathe with a DTI and check the collar of the barrel sleeve is square with little run out. Unfortunately if it is out you cant really true it up as the depth the barrel seats into the barrel bush will change. The optimum being the barrel being flush to 10 thou below the breech face of the bush. It is however easy to make a new sleeve on a lathe if required.

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There is no marks on the muzzle on my Long Branch either... in an indoor range of 10 yards, it also shot about 2 inches higher, and also to the right.. The sight was not for accurate shooting though -- looking through that big sight hole, the A4 size 11" x 8.5" target paper was small. Firing 2-3 magazines of ammo in auto mode cut the paper into pieces, so its accuracy is actually very good.

 

Regarding that pin on barrel which holds the barrel in collar, originally, I did not realize its use. Useless? So I used a punch to drive it out. But I realized its use in range -- it's very useful when change barrel. After firing 200 or 300 rounds, the barrel is very hot, without that barrel pin, operator's hand can be easily burned in the barrel changing process. So I put the barrel pin back after I returned home.

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  • 9 months later...
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