Pa Deuce Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Hi Guys, Anyone know of good sites to look for a Winchester 1918 B. A. R.? I do not care for a 1918A2; only interested in something that somehow escaped modification to 1918A2; but, likely saw combat in WWII. I regularly search Sturmgewehr.com, MachineGuns.com; and, occasionally check out SubGuns.com. Any other suggestions? Do Shotgun News and Gun List really have the Winchester 1918's advertized? Thank you very much for any help http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted March 2, 2004 Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi Pa Deuce, I thought I had one for you, but it turned out to be a tragedy. My SOT said the 2 1918s, one Colt and one Winchester, were shipped IN THE SAME BOX from an SOT by the name of Brian Pritchard. The 2 old guns fought it out for about 2000 miles. That journey did to those 2 BARs what almost a century of time and 2 World Wars had not done. The Winchester is s/n 113,xxx (about the 59,500th Winchester) and the Colt is s/n 14,xxx (about the 1,550th Colt). WHAT A SHAME! I am still looking for a C&R gun I can shoot occassionally, not a museum piece and not a Marlin-Rockwell. If I see what you are looking for, I will let you know. Please reciprocate. THANKS Carey careyleidenheimer@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 The Winchester 1918 that was supposedly used in the "Sand Peddles" is for sale, maybe. The owner's "friend" says he wants $100K. It is billed as a Winchester factory serial numbered sales sample with documentation that has been reblued. I told him thanks,but not thanks. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Carey,... how come you would pass up marlin/rockwell? Are they of lesser value or poorly made?I have a chance at one and was just wondering about your post,TIA.out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi Smoker, Find an armorer and ask him which one stood up the best, either in 1918 or in 1968. Marlin-Rockwell was and is the runt of the litter. My post has angered the Marlin-Rockwell owners so they are emailing me demanding a debate and that I give their BARs due consideration. That debate was settled long ago. When an armorer had to supply a BAR that worked, he sent a Winchester, a Colt, or he started looking for a Winchester or a Colt. Who am I to debate their wisdom? I would be very happy with any C&R BAR, but not a Marlin-Rockwell. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 Carey, Thanks for the feedback. I `m wondering though, is this condition like the Reising 50-55s, where they failed under harsh situations,but are a dream in the civilian sector,I have a NESA A2 and it always performs,I just wonder how differant the Marlin could be under normal(civilian) use.Any info is respectfully appreciated...that`s what this board should be all about...sharing info,experiences,good or not,TIA,my .02,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Hi Smoker, I just got back from the D-Day museum in New Orleans and had a chance to question guys on the BARs they used. My dad used 1918 A2s in the France 1942/45 with 82nd Airborne and my uncle used 1918A2s in the Pacific 1943-45 with the 2nd and 5th Marine Division. My grandfather is gone, but he used a Winchester 1918s in France in 1918/19 with the USMC when the BAR replaced the antiquated French Chauchat. We have many pictures of him with the Chauchat, but none so far with a BAR as the BAR came at the very tail end of WW1. The original Marlin-Rockwell guns did not pass muster after as little as 150 rds were fired in the original tests of the production models.They were brought up to an acceptable level, but that is all. The Winchesters and Colts exceeded the acceptable level from the start and then they were made even better. Armorers have stated that about half of the problems with the BAR had to do with the "Slow" A2 mod. So most guns were used on fast mode exclusively to avoid such failures. One of the guys I have worked with over the years was with the 101st Airborne in Korea, Charles Chapman in New Orleans. At the Chosin Resevoir, he and another BAR man were credited with 400+ comfirmed kills in just a matter of days. They would fire one BAR until it quit, then look for another that would fire. The temperature was about -30 degrees, so no oil could be used on any weapon. I'll ask him what manufacturers of BAR he had personal experience with, if he knows. Most soldiers who carried the BAR do not know who manufacturered the BAR they used in combat. Yesterday, one marine said he was not very sure who manufactured the BAR he carried on Iwo Jima, but he thought it was a "Remington". Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted March 6, 2004 Report Share Posted March 6, 2004 Hello Carey, What a wealth of info this turned out to be...how fortunate you are to have first hand accounts of BARs in action and in your family history.Last weekend at my club`s MG shoot a Ranger told me he jumped with a BAR many times...I`d never heard of that before...seems awfully heavy to be jumpin` with. Also another WWII vet said he carried one throughout the war...but neither vet could remember the manufactorer...sort of understandable at time,I guess.Thanks for the info,out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Hi Smoker, The largest piece of personal gear the Airborne would jump with was the 81mm mortar base plate. It was so heavy that you could expect a hernea after just a few jumps. I think they pack it in the weapons bundle now. Jumping with the BAR was SOP. You are lucky to have found that NESA A2. That is a good BAR. Pick up some of that inexpensive PMC Korean 30-06 they have for sale before it dissappears. My local distributor ran out. I have fired some sub MOA groups with the M1 using PMC ammo of that vintage. I ordered 6 cases today, but I am still looking for a BAR. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hey Carey,.. Thanks for the tip on the ammo...I reload alot of ammo and a couple of years ago I bought 5,000 rds of LC 68 match unfired brass 173gr fmjbt match and IMR 4895 powder...all pull down surplus thanks to clinton...so far so good...it feels kinda special to duplicate the GI loading and run it thru a vintage BAR...pretty accurate too.I have a shot at another BAR and I`ll keep ya posted...it`s a Marlin...but I figure it has been thru an arsonal refit or two...and I can give you a first hand comparison for what it`s worth...and it is a easy deal, out of a museum...so maybe it is a reliable one.Take care,out. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif P.S. Last week at the range the only BAR that didn`t run was a Colt...go figure..only shot in semi mode... I`ll find out what went wrong and give you a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi guys, There is a supposed "museum piece" Winchester BAR for sale now for $36,000. I emailed them to ask a few questions when it was priced at $33K. They never did answer my questions but did raise the price to $36. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATHFINDER Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 QUOTE (leid @ Mar 4 2004, 08:47 PM)The Winchester 1918 that was supposedly used in the "Sand Peddles" is for sale, maybe. The owner's "friend" says he wants $100K.                                       Carey Heavy Metal Armory still has Colt Serial Number 1 (yep, I said ONE) for sale for $650,000!!! As to the BAR being jumped by paratroopers, there was a rigger in WWII who was awarded the Silver Star for inventing and making specialty jump gear including a highly modified Griswold jump bag for the BAR. As you can see by this picture all of those bags had been lost post war! http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/7647...7/barjumper.JPG http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/64747/barjumper.JPG Right door exit on C-46 'Commando' circa 1952 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Pathfinder,...great photo!!..I wonder if that could be my NESA in that pic....who knows?...I was talkin` to a C2 last month and he speculated that there is probably only a dozen or so transferable NESAs in the registery...called them `duffle bag guns`... kinda interesting story...being so rare a transferable...anyway thanks for the pic, http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Hi Pathfinder, That is a nice shot! Thanks for sharing. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leid Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Smoker, One guy I saw at KC with a NESA brought it out of Korea with him on his stretcher after being wounded. He just put it under the blankets, took it home, and registered it in 1968 during the amnesty. A like-new NESA was sold for $25K last month. I was second in line for it. They are the perfect BAR to shoot with all the parts available. Carey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATHFINDER Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 I got a MILLION of em'!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Speaking of a million that about how many seconds it would take to get the turf outta that muzzle after you smack the ground at 50 MPH because of the BARs weight!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 I wonder if you could swing that BAR around on decent,...probably keep you airbourne for a few more minutes if you start firing...the WWII NESAs and IBMs make great shooters because nearly all went thru refit and hard use,like a war or two...so they show some use and you can dress`em up a little too...kinda the best of both worlds...I have to be more careful with the blued one...refinish would hurt the value...but touch up on the NESA is a snap...my .02, http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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