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Poorly Running West Hurley? (for sale possibly cheap?)


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#1 El Duce

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:41 PM

Long story short.   I haven't posted in a long time, last time that I did was about an MP40 issue.

 

Well, here is the long story short.  There is a local West Hurley M1a1.    I know the owner, I know the C3 dealer.   Owner never had it transferred due to a divorce.  C3 dealer has had it on his books for a long time.   I finally got to see it today, and shoot it.   Problem is, the gun only really likes S&B ammo.   I brought along some Winchester, Remington, and Federal.  

 

The gun choked, on the Federal, kind of liked the Remington, and OK with the Winchester.   Really didn't run 100% on the Sellier and Bellot either.  

 

I know pretty vague information, I am by far not an expect on Thompsons.  

 

Failure to eject, stovepipe were the main problems with the gun.   One casing of the federal actually ended up stuck backwards in the barrel.  

 

But the good part.  I made an offer.   Right at 10k.   with this little known information.   What opinions to you folks have?   Seller knows that I am pretty firm on my price.   I ran into him last sunday at another range, and he implies that amount wouldn't take it, but a hair over might.   Not sure what a hair over 10k is.   But, before I pursue this any further.  I would like to hear some opinions.   I did take some pictures and only one video.  But I don't have the ability to post.  TIA!


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#2 ppgcowboy

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:49 PM

I would ask him what the very lowest offer is he will accept. If it is shade over, buy it. Then have the gun reworked.
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#3 Sandman1957

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:44 PM

Who are you paying, the "owner" or the C3.  If the owner, then there is no state tax.  You will only have to pay the C3 for a transfer.  That will save you a good chunk of change.  I would buy it for anything under 12K so you have plenty of wiggle room.

 

Good luck.


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#4 El Duce

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 03:31 AM

After some discussion I would be paying the C3 dealer.    I told the person that I was pretty firm on my price.   I have a daughter going to college in the fall.   I really shouldn't be spending this kind of money right now.   But, if I can get a deal.   It would make sense to me.  


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#5 El Duce

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 03:32 AM

What would be a fist step in trying to get the gun to run better.   Replace the bolt? 


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#6 Adg105200

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:00 AM

If the internals aren't already, replace all the internals with GI parts. Many people also run a GI trigger frame as well. Otherwise it might need to take a trip to PK.

Andrew

Edited by Adg105200, 28 June 2018 - 05:01 AM.

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#7 gijive

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:08 AM

What would be a fist step in trying to get the gun to run better.   Replace the bolt? 

The first step I would recommend would be to save your money and buy something else.  If I recall correctly, the barrels on the West Hurley M1's have an improper chamber size which causes a lot of feeding problems.  If the rest of the gun is out of spec and you really want it to run correctly, you'll have to send it for repair and spend several thousand extra dollars to make it work correctly.  Why not save your money and get a WWII made M1 or M1A1 sometime down the road?


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#8 TD.

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:46 AM

10K or a hair over for a M1 West Hurley Thompson that would probably ship to an out of state dealer on a Form 3 is definitely a good price given today's market. If your in-state and have a C&R license, all the better.  However, I would figure at least an additional 3K and a 4 year wait before PK will be able to make it like new. The first thing I would look at during a field strip is the bolt. AOC West Hurley manufactured the M1 bolt because not enough GI bolts could be obtained during that time. If a WH bolt, it is out of spec and will have to be replaced immediately. As stated above, the barrel can also be an issue but I believe PK can sometimes repair an out of spec chamber.

 

If mine, I would insert my Merle .22 caliber kit and never look back ;)    


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#9 mnshooter

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:18 AM

How does a C3 have the gun "on his books" if it hasn't been transferred out of the "owner"s form 4?

The C&R allows transfer and shipment directly to you, from all owners or dealers, from any free state. 

The most cited problem with WH M1A1 bolt's was a slightly longer overall length of the nose, causing dryfire hits on the chamber mouth.

But, when I had one, it measured exactly the same as a GI bolt; maybe someone has other information. 

WH only made M1A1 bolts; never M1's.

The WH chambers are definitely tighter than the GI barrels, but I have yet to have a single chambering problem with any. 

Deerslayer and others can easily ream them to GI spec if needed.  Same story with Green Mountain barrels.

 

Even with the internals replaced with GI, the common dimensional problem I have found out of five WH "M1's" examined is:

The magazine well and catch are not to spec, often preventing the mags from seating high enough to lock into place.

This has ranged from accepting all mags, just a tight fit, to over 80% (out of dozens) of GI mags not even locking into place, even with the POS cast mag catch replaced. 

The fix is very straightforward, just a slight relieving of the angled flats in the mag well.  Simple, if you do it right.  Bad news if you don't.

I'm not claiming this as the only issues on these; the above were the ones that mattered in my experience.


Edited by mnshooter, 28 June 2018 - 09:44 AM.

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#10 bug

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 10:13 AM

OP. If your offer is turned down and you don't want to go higher, please email or PM  me the dealer's contact info.

 

Bob D


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#11 El Duce

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 02:08 PM

The "owner" bought it over 19 years ago.   Was going through a divorce and never had the gun transferred to him.  So he wouldn't lose the gun in the divorce.    So, the dealer who had it transferred has had it in his possession for the past 19 years.  I have known both parties pretty much the entire time.   I know it sounds confusing.   The person who handed over the money for the gun, never got around to having it transferred to him.   Now he needs money, and I am looking to buy.   I am not sure what his bottom dollar amount is.   He knows how much I am willing to pay.   For intents and purposes it is in his best interest to sell it to me.  

 

I just don't want to purchase an expensive paperweight.  


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#12 reconbob

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:38 PM

    I have not seen the gun so cannot say for sure, but the problems you describe could

be caused by a bad barrel. Fortunately the M1 is very simple compared to the M1928A1

and there is not a whole lot that can go wrong. I have never known a WH M1 to have a

receiver so poorly machined that the gun did not work. Again, I have not seen the gun.

 

My $0.02

 

Bob


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#13 dalbert

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:05 PM

Buy the gun, and replace the internals, and the barrel.  See how it shoots then.  I bet it will run fine.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


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#14 ron_brock

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:08 PM

Swap barrel and other parts for GI and Ill bet youll be good to go. As mentioned the WH typically dont have the issues. No Blish lock makes the machining much easier. That said keep a couple grand in your budget in case it needs repairs. Keep and eye on rear sight rivets too. If you could get it for sub $15k that will still give you room for repairs. Id aim for $12k max since it presently has issues unless you have skill and tools to swap the barrel yourself.

Its also possible to have someone help you swap the barrel. This has been done several times at club shows.

Let us now how it goes.

Ron
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#15 67ray

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 07:43 PM

Remember these guns are worth about ~$2k in parts and we are paying for the paperwork.  You could flip that any day of the week and twice on Sunday for $14k easily.  Take your chances and if it is a headache make a tidy profit.

 

And if you decline please contact me I will be happy to give it a try.


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#16 mnshooter

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 09:46 PM

The "owner" bought it over 19 years ago.   Was going through a divorce and never had the gun transferred to him.  So he wouldn't lose the gun in the divorce.    So, the dealer who had it transferred has had it in his possession for the past 19 years.  I have known both parties pretty much the entire time.   I know it sounds confusing.   The person who handed over the money for the gun, never got around to having it transferred to him.   Now he needs money, and I am looking to buy.   I am not sure what his bottom dollar amount is.   He knows how much I am willing to pay.   For intents and purposes it is in his best interest to sell it to me.  

 

I just don't want to purchase an expensive paperweight.  

Ok, now I get it.  It's a rare dealer who would sit on something for 19 years.

On the other hand, I don't know of any divorces that dragged on for 19 years, either.

So, you can form 4 directly from the dealer to you.  As others have mentioned, anything under 12K, you're sitting good.

Even better, tell him you'll double whatever he paid 19 years ago.


Edited by mnshooter, 28 June 2018 - 09:50 PM.

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#17 El Duce

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:24 AM

The divorce didn't last 19 years, and honestly I have no idea why the guy never got around to having it transferred to himself.   I live in a pretty small community, and even smaller when it comes to folks that would be interested in this type of firearm. 

 

I hadn't heard back from the seller.   I will see what he has to say about his bottom line .   Thank you for all of the replies. 


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#18 huggytree

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:39 AM

I see many sell for around the $17-18k range....and all bet a bunch of those dont run well either...so at $10,000 your trying to steal it from him....

 

as the owner of 1 really problem gun that ive got 3 years into messing with and now at a gunsmith for over  year id skip it and buy something else....

 

the thought of spending 4 years waiting to get it to run right would not be something i would even consider....

 

buy the gun for $12,000,sell it for $17,000 and buy a ww2 gun for $21,000......maybe you can get it to run yourself with a bolt swap, maybe not.....if not turn around and sell it for profit

 

these guns list for $21,000 all day long on GB (they dont sell), but offering $10,000 is taking advantage of someone


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#19 TSMGguy

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 08:44 AM

I bought an NOS WH M1 years ago. It wouldn't function reliably, but the price was right. Replacing the cast WH internals with NOS GI parts was my first step too, but the gun still wouldn't run. It got a visit to PK, which included bringing all tolerances to GI specs and a beautiful refinish to what I wanted. Today it's perfection, a joy to own and behold. You'll be very pleased with the gun If the price is right and you're willing to engage a talented Thompson smith for what is minor work.

Attached Files


Edited by TSMGguy, 29 June 2018 - 10:03 AM.

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#20 First Sergeant

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:50 PM

El Duce

 

I've always liked simple solutions and when my 1928 WH wouldn't run (after sitting in a safe for over 10 years) I put a new recoil spring in it and it ran perfect.  This gun ran great when first purchased and only had issues after not being shot in 10 years.  YMMV since you don't know if this gun ran well EVER !   I concur with others who suggest buy it, replace parts and get in line for PK. You will be money ahead no matter what you as long as the gun's only issue is the on again, off again feeding problems.  


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