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Colt Thompson Spare Part Kits


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#1 rpbcps

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 10:49 AM

Yesterday I was reading about the Spare parts Kits on pages 173 to 175 of The Ultimate Thompson book.

 

Wrongly, I now know, I always presumed that the Spare Parts kit were produced in 1921 / 1922 at the same time as the Colt Thompsons, but Tracie Hill, corrected my assumption. The containers were produced in 1928, at the request of the USMC by the Worcester Pressed Steel company, (W.P.S), who were producing L Drums for Auto-Ordnance at that time.

 

So once these were produced for the Marines, I guess Auto-Ordnance marketed them to their other customers. I note there is no mention of the ‘Metal kit box’ in both editions of the Model of 1921 Handbooks in my collection, for the obvious reason I now know, but the box is featured on the last page of my 1930’s 2nd version of the 1921/28/27 handbook.  

 

The information that evades me, however, is how many of these spare part containers were actually produced by W.P.S for Auto-Ordnance.

 

The knowledge on this board often surprises me, so I was wondering if anyone has any further information on the original spare parts kits and can tell us how many of the spare parts containers, were produced by W.P.S?

 

​Stay Safe

Richard

 

Attached File  Spare Parts in 1936 Catalogue.jpg   46.83K   86 downloads


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#2 bob241

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:31 AM

Have no idea how many of these kits were produced, they must not have sold very well, as Numrich Arms Company, West Hurley N.Y were selling this spare parts kits for $13.50 in 1957,This sale flyer is printed in The Ultimate  Thompson Book by Teacie L  Hill,page 686.


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#3 rpbcps

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:04 AM

Have no idea how many of these kits were produced, they must not have sold very well, as Numrich Arms Company, West Hurley N.Y were selling this spare parts kits for $13.50 in 1957,This sale flyer is printed in The Ultimate  Thompson Book by Teacie L  Hill,page 686.

 

or maybe that is an indication that a lot of them were produced by W.P.S.? Then again, maybe the Numrich Arms Company only had a dozen or so left to sell, in 1957.


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#4 colt21a

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 04:28 PM

3757


Edited by colt21a, 18 September 2018 - 12:35 AM.

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#5 rpbcps

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:54 PM

Had  info that is now over 40 years old that they had done 1,000 kits, and by the late 40's had sold all. and not even 20% of pd's had bought them.. And is probably why so rare today. {They made more guns} Some had them for fishing lure kits some for bullet box spare ammo. and some for cleaning goodies. pins and punches, so very rare today to find one intact.

 

I had six one from Steve McQueen collection, the other's minty. And one unissued in wrapper from Oki P.D.which Roger or Curtis told me they had never seen one in wrapper inside and out. Just like the 1921 instruction sheet in brown envelope which was supposed to be in every shipping box.{I sent one to Gordon, Dennis And Bill years ago.} well lets make that two decades ago.

 

Probably the most any one Thompson guy, Since Roger only had a few and the same for Curtis..I know I asked them.. And sold three of them to guys who collected Thompsons for years and never saw one but for book pictures. And as far as I know Chuck can chime in here, The Chicago P.D. had none.  If they did they all went home with somebody in 1940.Just like all the Colt spare parts did. And many of the Internal parts on the guns. Including most of the drum's. which somehow got replaced with Bridgeport drums. WW2 ERA and now marked with stock/ Inventory codes.

 

glad somebody posted about these. That triggered another memory in my Mind{wild and crazy}

 

Colt21a Ron  

 

 

Thank you for that information, if they only produced 1000 of them, no wonder they are so rare.

 

If they were initially produced at the request of the U.S.M.C, then I guess the Marine Corps would have took a large percentage of those 1000 kits.

 

A few years ago, thanks to a member of this board, I was able to add a 1921 instruction sheet to my collection, but it does not have its original brown envelope. :(

 

Stay safe

 

Richard


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#6 colt21a

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:58 PM

3757


Edited by colt21a, 18 September 2018 - 12:36 AM.

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#7 Roland the Thompsongunner

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:41 AM

I remember sitting and talking Thompsons with Joe Miller who was from Stroudsburg Pa . He told me his wife found one at a gun show filled with 1911 parts. She made a deal for all the parts and asked if she could have the tin box too and the guy said sure you can have that old harmonica case!
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#8 colt21a

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:06 AM

3757


Edited by colt21a, 18 September 2018 - 12:36 AM.

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#9 rpbcps

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:11 PM

Does any one know how many reproduction spare part containers were produced by Gordon Herigstad?

Stay safe

Richard
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#10 Gio

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:13 PM

Just a guess I would think 500 as that would be a minimum amount  a factory would probably produce to get a good price. But just a guess on my part.

 

T D may have more knowledge on this or one of Gordon's close friends.

 

Mine is dated 05/04 and #169

 

Frank


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#11 joseph12297

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:40 PM

For reference the 1936 US Marine/Navy military Ordnance Catalog contained those metal spare parts containers, $3.47 each as military issue
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#12 rpbcps

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:37 AM

Just a guess I would think 500 as that would be a minimum amount  a factory would probably produce to get a good price. But just a guess on my part.
 
T D may have more knowledge on this or one of Gordon's close friends.
 
Mine is dated 05/04 and #169
 
Frank

  

For reference the 1936 US Marine/Navy military Ordnance Catalog contained those metal spare parts containers, $3.47 each as military issue


Frank / Larry,
Thanks for providing that information, the originals were certainly an investment for those who looked ahead and bought one in 1957.

If 500 reproductions were produced by Gordon, that was also a big investment he made.

During my research to try and find the quantity that was produced, I discovered an old post from 2004, which stated that Gordon was selling the containers then for $275. A few years ago, at the time I bought the Viola case from Gordon, I was considering buying a spare parts container from him. At the time, funds were tight and I was thinking, "for a small metal container, that is very expensive", and I only buy things which if I can justify the ticket price to myself, so I passed on the opportunity of purchasing one.

A few years later, having only rarely seen one of Gordons spare parts containers for sale, my opinion had changed and I was thinking, "one of Gordons containers would have been a nice compliment for a display, I wish I had bought one from Gordon when I had the chance" Earlier this year I spotted one for sale on eBay and after a little 'battering', took the plunge and bought mine, for $205 plus shipping.

So looking at the 2004 post, 13 years later the $ price has not gone up, but down, for the GH containers, although considering exchange rates for myself , the £ sterling cost went up by £1.

Here is the link to the original post:

http://www.machinegu...?showtopic=2307

Stay safe
Richard
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#13 ron_brock

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 08:57 PM

Richard,

At the moment I would agree the price took a plunge. Gordon likely had them priced to recoup his investment and make a little. However the market is slim for expensive accessories like this so the initial build has lasted a long time. Currently the leftover stock is being sold from his estate. I don't recall is my little paper tag lists the production number but I'll check.

Eventually the market will absorb all of these and then it will be a secondary market only. Typically the price will go up as future collectors want to get one. Although the investment seems high they are pretty fairly priced considering the time and development that must have gone into them.

I had the opportunity at TATA to hold an original and a Gordon side by side. The detail is impressive but the differences are obvious when viewed closely.

Ron
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#14 arrgh1934

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 11:20 PM

I own the original parts case with original contents of which Gordon used to reproduce his cases. The differences are extremely subtle between original and reproduction. Few would identify any difference . Mr. Hills book attempts to show the difference,but photos do not adequately depict significant aspects to tell one from the other.Gordon agreed that all his cases were virtually identical relative to clasp construction and hinge spot weld placement. Having been able to view several original boxes in relation to Gordon's reproduction,it was clear the originals displayed much less consistency,where Gordon's boxes are all identical.
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#15 rpbcps

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:08 AM

Richard,

At the moment I would agree the price took a plunge. Gordon likely had them priced to recoup his investment and make a little. However the market is slim for expensive accessories like this so the initial build has lasted a long time. Currently the leftover stock is being sold from his estate. I don't recall is my little paper tag lists the production number but I'll check.

Eventually the market will absorb all of these and then it will be a secondary market only. Typically the price will go up as future collectors want to get one. Although the investment seems high they are pretty fairly priced considering the time and development that must have gone into them.

I had the opportunity at TATA to hold an original and a Gordon side by side. The detail is impressive but the differences are obvious when viewed closely.

 

Ron,

That is interesting information, I guess the GH Spare parts container I purchased earlier in the year must be one from leftover stock that is being sold from his estate.

It would be interesting to know exactly how many containers Gordon actually produced.

 

Like most Thompson accessories, apart from the recent stuff coming from Russia, I am guessing these spare part containers are rare to find in the UK, hence I had mine shipped from the USA.  When I purchased the 'viola' case from Gordon, he told me he had only sent one other 'viola' cases to the UK. I know of one more that has been bought since.

 

I own the original parts case with original contents of which Gordon used to reproduce his cases. The differences are extremely subtle between original and reproduction. Few would identify any difference . Mr. Hills book attempts to show the difference,but photos do not adequately depict significant aspects to tell one from the other.Gordon agreed that all his cases were virtually identical relative to clasp construction and hinge spot weld placement. Having been able to view several original boxes in relation to Gordon's reproduction,it was clear the originals displayed much less consistency,where Gordon's boxes are all identical.

 

Arrgh1934,

That is interesting, indeed I have spent some time looking at the photos in Tracie Hills book, since I purchased my GH Container.

 

Logically, the fact that all of Gordons containers are identical is due to modern production technology, as opposed to the production methods of the originals in the late 1920's / 1930's.

 

Stay safe

 

Richard


Edited by rpbcps, 26 August 2017 - 05:10 AM.

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#16 Canuck

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 10:47 AM

I still have the box Gordon shipped his spare parts box in. As you can see he numbered each box and insert but unfortunately not like an artist does a limited edition print such as 678/1000. So it is anyone's guess but I think there would have been at least 200 and likely no more than 500. Additionally I wonder if he shipped them sequentially? If he did and those remaining in his estate end at 300 (just picked that number arbitrarily) then we would have our number. Maybe?

Attached Files


Edited by Canuck, 26 August 2017 - 10:50 AM.

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#17 giantpanda4

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 03:08 PM

IIRC I have 204 or 240...


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#18 colt21a

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 04:43 PM

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Edited by colt21a, 18 September 2018 - 12:37 AM.

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#19 dam6

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:23 PM

I have numbers. 6. 178. &. 202
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#20 lpedersen

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 07:15 PM

Number 238 here...


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