colt21a Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 i have been around the tommygun game for 35 years,glad to see some are still in it....it has been a fun trip over the years.........nice info and nice site.... and my table at s.a.r. was next to jim streets from ohio, did not evenlook at those 21's,reblue's.........yep we have come to that..........and to think in my 1975 ad in shotgun news i sold mi's for 750.00 and a 27 semi -colt for 2,700.00 yep the good ole days.......... still miss serial 98# a good shooter was she............anyway all you guys have a good xmas and new year............take care,ron p.s.colt 21a seemed like a good one.........."The Quest" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Welcome Ron. I may have talked to you at the show, I was there hanging out and pestering Gordon, Murrey, Merle and Doug for the week-end. Are you the guy that had the original Thompson case on your table? Glad to see some of the people that have been into the Thompson scene for years posting on here. I have only been doing this, class 3 stuff, for about 6-7 years. Us novices can learn alot from you guys. Welcome and don't be shy about posting replys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Welcome to the board Ron! Maybe I can catch up with you at the show next year. Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 WELCOME,... GOTTA LIKE A GUY WHO HAS 21 AND COLT IN HIS HANDLE! KEEPEM`SMOKIN`. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Welcome! I second Mike's comment! There is nothing more valuable than experience! Thanks for joining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 yes guys had a good time at the show,and was shootin the breeze with gordon,since i have known him for about 15 years,and helped him with the book { a little}and when i owned {'THE CHICAGO TYPEWRITER COMPANY"} in chicago,did the al capone book with bill helmer>t.g.t.m.t.t.r. fame> boy i miss the old day's....my first exp. was a gunny sgt. carried a 28 model in danang in 1970........too bad he had to leave it behind....after that bought a 21 a from mike rojak of the old l.e.s.company in skokie il. for the lowly sum of 900.00 {seems so now} have gone through over 125 colts since then,{good times} some of my treasure's serial #96#98 #103 #8476 {mason city gun}and one of the m.g.m.gun's,#8780#7519 bristow gun#5715#6006 blackhawk county#6519 aw heck and all the rest....... had dealing with alot of the old timers in the late 60's.....now all gone.started off many on the collecting game,then bailed out of it in around 99 sold off my last twenty colts,when the price's were cheeeep!!! now i am shocked.......alot of good memories..... only now have a few colts..and will probably pick up a sample to shoot next year,>don't shoot too much either} however the thompson has been the first love........ wrote about that in "the quest"in tracie's newsletter,and the "chicago thompson's"and the "scaramuzzo gun's" and a few stories, for a few other publication's....who like my chicagoese style................. i kinda was the black sheep....i knew too much info and a few collectors coming on the scene did not like that..go figure> so stepped out of it,after my last big sale, made a lot of happy collectors,and a few who you could never please!!! however never had a colt or anything sent back for a refund.all happy camper's......and would willingly buy all that stuff back.... nobody remembers the canvas war's in 1989 thru 1991 drum pouches and cases}wink!! well just thought i would check in and say hi!!!! see if any of the old guys are still around, tho not many, most have gone to the great beyond,retired or just plain {like myself} dropped out of the scene all together. glad that gordon has the book off the ground> every tommygun guy worth his oats should have one. and bill helmer is now in iowa,writing the last chapter,on the st.valentines day massacre....>should be a good read< maybe one day will write the "thompson tales" a little tale of all the thompson wheelings and dealing's over the past 35 year's...................not too many left that have been in the game that long....okay a few, you can count them on two hands.......... a lot of nice info on this board.......... and remember if you think you paid too much you probably did.... but then so will the next guy you sell it to,wink!!! take care,ron p.s. yep colt tsmg was my old plate in illinois, so i figured colt 21 a would be a good handle here,its the first model of thomspon i ever owned,#4935 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIONHART Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Hi Ron. I remember you. We did some business back in the early 90's, when you were operating the "Chicago Typewriter Co." Always wondered what had happened to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 still alive and kickin........just flying under the radar now..or just below the water swell's........maybe like a german u-boat,wink!! hold on to one of those capone or dillinger t-shirt's.they are collector items now............heck i remember my old catalog had replica's for sale for around,250.00 now they have even increased,but that has been 13 years now......time flys while having fun. i am sure when i sold my last twenty colts a few on these boards remember the shotgun news ad........ however it won't be a phoenix rising from the ashes...... no call for that here in sunny az. but what the heck the dillinger thompsons are here......can you really say,i followed them from indiana to chicago to tucson???.naW!!!! just haunting mysteries.... i am glad to see a board kinda devoted to things thompson............. but i am not getting on the bandstand,i wanted prices to be low for this stuff.not the skyrocket it is today.......... how sad they used to cut up J.CURT earl on his prices,now the dealers and collectors make him look like a penny pauper.....and they ask what they want...... that is why most guns will never be in the hands of the masses. i never horded just collected and sold them..so others for a price could enjoy.........i never sold a thompson i did not like{ well maybe just one,#103}that was a bad one.... i still have the one in rogers catalog book.the color brochure with marty o-toole with the 1919 colt bar in back cover... good catalog, for the most part only have a few items left............i think lou padilla said.we are only the curators of the collection for so long........... so hording 50 to 100 great.................leave them to some museum.........so the future can enjoy them..........wink!! maybe a few more will chime in.........and for george looking for 8780a .the guy still has it, it's not for sale.....{for now} i will keep working on it.. take care thompson fans......its a great chase..............don't burn out............ take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Dec 18 2003, 07:30 PM)Welcome to the board Ron! Maybe I can catch up with you at the show next year. Damon damon don't forget the project gun i talked to you about. i figured i won't bother doug.............you do the footwork,and make a few bucks in the process..... stay safe ,and have a good holiday season.... and i like the web-page.............take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Colt21A, Yes, the Colt TSMG market (and now WWII models) has been out of control the last 2, or 3 years. But J. Curtis Earl was an expert at inventing ways to pump up the value of his Colt TSMG that defied the then current market, as well as the actual condition of his Thompsons'. The rediculous 1973 Guns & Ammo article on the "Midas" gun, written by Earl under a pseudonym, was the height of hubris and subterfuge. The fact that Earl died leaving 110 TSMGs' (over 20 of them Colt's) in the vault in his backyard seems a testament to his indifference to his outlandish prices, and the collectors resistance to meet his price. If Earl were dealing today, his Colt Thompsons' would be advertised for a minimum %35 higher than the highest priced gun for sale by some other collector. Earl operated at a time when many buyers were ignorant about the idiosyncrasies of Colt Thompson's. At least today, considering the amount of information readily available to the public about these guns, the buyer can now make an informed decesion bfore ponying up $20K + for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 i did one of the last interviews with him.as over the years we went back and forth on thing's............he had around 54 thompsons left at last count,colt's, military,and a nice 21ac 27semi.i took pictures of them,and made him a offer on them all before i left,the amount was 162,000......that was 3,000 each...........as alot were west hurley and numrich redo's,about twenty five had been colt's....... he scoffed and told me 250,000 plus would do it all.closer to 5,000 each per gun... i laughed and said 5,000 for a west hurley,and a bunch of reblues,and some parts gun's no way!!! and was figuring how to get my money back on the deal,and still end up with a few nice colt's,and maybe the 27ac semi,>heard later a guy in phx bought it for 25,000.00>>>good luck on its sale for 50,000 now.... i still have his next to last interview on tape,and the pic's of the "final collection"} i am of the old world of buying them an selling them and not for crazy profit........now the sharks are out,and that is why i stepped out. fuuny thing some of the people buying and selling today,would cry to me over the phone,oh!please give me another 500.00 off the gun.......or how about 5,200.00 instead of 6,000.00 the same people today..............say you want it i want 25,000...............now for it............they can suck egg's................i just don't own them at that price.... and i guess i never will again................life has other pleasures beside the "thompson" one or two will do me for now............taken care of twenty or more at one time is a chore,insurance,security,rust. SAFE QUEENS......... of course all the fun,the show's, the tale's, good memories................i had them and still do.......now its big bizz......................line the wallet,make biggee buck's.................if you don't believe that.ask some of the old collectors around.......they will tell you,if they want to be really honest................... i have had more deal's then carter had pill's......... now i just sit back and laugh, FEEDING FRENZY AT THE ZOO!! wink!! and yes some of the things about earl are true, i knew him since 1970 along time.....i forgave him when he was sick, and we made up for the past deal's......everything comes to pass..... enjoy the game, now anybody want to buy this 21a colt 99% with all the goodies for 125,000??{ i am looking at a new benz}he - he take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Ron, Your recount of your last dealings with Earl is indeed fascinating. Apparently he had not changed since I attempted to make a deal with him in 1989/90. The TSMGs' he sold to Champlin for his museum, outside of the 9mm Savage, and "Midas", were some questionable samples; especially those NAC guns. I would always be wary of a TSMG that could be traced back to Earl's collection "25,000...............now for it............they can suck egg's................i just don't own them at that price.... and i guess i never will again................life has other pleasures beside the "thompson" No truer words were spoken. It is unfortunate that in order to realize a dream of owning a Colt TSMG today, for many, it remains a dream. "taken care of twenty or more at one time is a chore,insurance,security,rust. SAFE QUEENS........." Exactly!!! The hoarding of a particular type of gun, in the case of Colt TSMGs', may be lucrative, but it sure seems bizaar. Why would any collection need redundant pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 colt21a Hi Ron, Welcome to the Board. Nice to hear from you. You brought back some memories with your tales of Thompsons past. By the way, I provided the pictures for Tracie Hill's Newsletter when you wrote the article about the Chicago Police Thompsons. I enjoyed your article about the Scaramuzzo guns, too! If you care to email me privately I'll send you a couple of pictures I still have of the Chicago Police guns. Regards, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter63a Posted December 19, 2003 Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 Welcome to the board Ron! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif You are loaded with great experience and first class advice. I hope you become a regular. Don't stay underwater (or underground) too long; I've been told it is cold and dark down there!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Best Regards, Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2003 QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Dec 19 2003, 03:52 PM)Ron, Your recount of your last dealings with Earl is indeed fascinating. Apparently he had not changed since I attempted to make a deal with him in 1989/90. The TSMGs' he sold to Champlin for his museum, outisde of the 9mm Savage, and "Midas", were some questionable samples; especially those NAC guns. I would always be wary of a TSMG that could be traced back to Earl's collection "25,000...............now for it............they can suck egg's................i just don't own them at that price.... and i guess i never will again................life has other pleasures beside the "thompson" No truer words were spoken. It is unfortunate that in order to realize a dream of owning a Colt TSMG today, for many, it remains a dream. "taken care of twenty or more at one time is a chore,insurance,security,rust. SAFE QUEENS........." Exactly!!! The hording of a particular type of gun, in the case of Colt TSMGs' may be lucrative, but it sure seems bizaar. Why would any collection need redundant pieces? yep he was full of tales and stories,including his new in box 21a in the bedroom safe,serial 1800 or something,a L.A. police gun. a restoration if i ever saw one,out of 125 gun's i had three reblues,and one restoration.....one was the m.g.m.gun,serial #894 complete restoration 21a model. another 21a that went to recon ord. and another 21ac that went to birmingham pistol parlor. funny story my first original gun ended up at mandall's in az.refinished to the hilt i heard.............and the peru il,27 converted back to 21ac spec's..........{almost forgot that one} too many the mind tends to forget......... and yes fella's. who put the $20,000 tag on all colts now>??? i remember when i would buy one for 5,000.00 and sell it for 5,500.00 and everybody was happy........now i get quotes for 5,000.00 for freakin dealer sample's........... and spare parts kits,i had eight of them.............now they want a kings ransom................... my new project is a semi-short barrel sbr auto-ord..set up to 21ac specs;semi for display.{for shows'} since a dude back in chi-town{circa 1993} dropped my 21ac 98% out of the case at a cook county show.........the last time i displayed again......................anything of quality} i said f---this....................now they can look at the semi short barrel and play gangster. and the two queens can sit in the safe..........it may sound funny after going through so many.............but no ego trips for me............it was honest fun.......... and when that ran out so did i. one day i will put it all together, and write the "final chapter" heck enough tommygun guys have done that already...... wink!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen Und Bier Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Ron, Are you Ron K of RK Arms? Did you by any chance sell a former SFPD gun #6114 through A Spotted Dog Firearms out of AZ Steve Hill, Doug McBeth back in '99? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 yep the same guy ron's gun's, rkarms', and back in the day,armco.and arm ltd.i know the gun spotted dog had,i think it might have come from snowden or maybe ohio ord,because when those guns went up for bid,don was trying to do the deal.and heard it went to ohio ord.or somebody brokered it............. there is so much b.s.in the gun community now.......... nobody wants to be truthfull,or steal a deal......... {my info never cost me nothing just time>>} you know that routine..............thats why alot of guys disliked my deal's...................i can think of two, but boy they never ever sent nothing back that did not meet the need. funny thing complain like school girls........after they get the stuff,you tell them send the stuff back for a full refund...........and they say no thanks i will keep it.......... that tells me they wanted it in the first place, and layed back and complained anyhow........ everybody has had a few customers like that......... and when things got really crazy...........prices,prices prices,i bailed out..............now they all want gun's...........for 5,000 and 10,000 i will talk with the "snowman" and see if he remembers it... because the number sounds very familiar to me.....heck maybe it was offered to me at one time and i passed on it,however i did get a nice greasegun from spotted dog...... it now resides in the "mccloud collection out east..... everybody has a piece of rk arms in the collection.........sorry for the ya-da ya-da...............take care,ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkyard4$ Posted December 20, 2003 Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 Ron, I don't know if you remember me or not. I met you at a CADA show one time, I had a leather case that I was told was for a Thompson drum which you later set me straight on. After I told you of the fascination I had with Thompsons you said you would bring a 21 into DS Arms in Glayslake, IL where you worked so I could hold one of these great treasures in my hands. My father (the gunsmith) and I came into the shop and what a thrill we had looking the gun over. I want to thank you for the opportunity. Unfortunately my father died 7 months ago at age 60 of throat cancer (never smoked a day in his life). Maybe some day I will get my class III or live in a machine gun friendly state but until then I will just have to be happy with my 1927A1 semi-auto. I always like hearing when people talk about the st.valentines day massacre and the thompsons that were used because my great aunt (who is still alive) was walking down the street when it happened and heard the Thompsons first hand. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for giving us the private showing of one of your Thompsons. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted December 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2003 darn paul sorry to hear about the passing of your father,and yes i remember that well i think the item was from rock island arsenal if my old brain still work's.... the guy i sold that thompson to just passed away in il.two months ago,hal spiro..a great and crazy guy.he had a nice collection of thompson's who knows what happened to them...i am glad you still remembered that.......yes d&s arms spent four years helping people with fal's and mg's......... all my neat stuff is now gone,accept for a few.......... in the homes across the world.making others happy i hope.......... that is what will leave behind.memories........ i just talked with bill helmer tonight,he is doing well after his last surgery,darn brain tumors bring the best of us down...........his book on the massacre will be out in feb.2004...i can't wait............... you take care of yourself.........and hope your father is enjoying a little thompson in heaven, and nobody can take that away from him...........take care ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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