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Canadian Army 1942 Inglis Bren MKIm Questions

Bren MKIm Inglis Canadian

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#1 Robski

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 03:51 PM

Greetings

 

Recently bought this 1942 Inglis Bren MKIm Dewat and I have a few questions for the community. It has a MKII Stock, Barrel and Magazine presently, but I would like to know how the Canadian Army version of the Inglis would have been outfitted when put into service. Everything has the "JI" stamp on it.

 

Receiver is 1T.5033 and has the Canadian "C" Broad arrow and the DPC crossed flags proof mark.  Also has a cartouche of what looks like a broad arrow/'C" and 43 in it (see below).  Lastly, a big '42 stamp.

 

Barrel is 6T.2343 and is stamped 43 with a poorly done double DPC crossed flags proof mark as well as an "L" and "JI".  What could be a smaller "C" broad arrow stamp also appears.

 

Bi-pod is what I understand to be a Canadian MK3 non-adjustable unit stamped "JI".  Both legs move together.  From the limited info I can find on the Canadian Bren's these were standard on the MKIm for the Canadian Army.  Thoughts?

 

Were these issued with a sling originally?  What style / type was issued in this case?  Finally will that sling work on the current configuration with the MKII stock?

 

 

 

Overall, this Bren is in great shape but I would consider swapping the Buttstock for a MKI unit (If I ever find one of course).  The barrel is welded in so it is permanent.

 

This thing is cool as hell and I enjoy looking at it (in front of my TV) haha.

 

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best Regards

Rob

 

 

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#2 APEXgunparts

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 10:02 PM

I think that stock is correct for the Inglis MK 1 (M)
That model Inglis built gun was its own variant.
Hopefully these factory pictures provide you some details.

Richard

 

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#3 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 12:03 PM

Stock appears to me to be the late model stock. The M Inglis models were produced with the same stock as the MKI's that had the folding shoulder bracket on the top rear of the stock.

I have a 1944 dated Chinese Inglis 7.92 MKII that typically has the same stock as the one on the gun in the pic.

IMO, no reason to suspect that the gun was not manufactured and issued with the stock currently on it.

I suspect finding a really nice condition MKI or MKIM Inglis stock will be a task.

FWIW


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#4 APEXgunparts

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 03:58 PM

Stock appears to me to be the late model stock. The M Inglis models were produced with the same stock as the MKI's that had the folding shoulder bracket on the top rear of the stock.

I have a 1944 dated Chinese Inglis 7.92 MKII that typically has the same stock as the one on the gun in the pic.

IMO, no reason to suspect that the gun was not manufactured and issued with the stock currently on it.

I suspect finding a really nice condition MKI or MKIM Inglis stock will be a task.

FWIW


I had to procure a set of Mark 1 BREN wood from a gent in the UK who manufactures them.
He was nice enough to bring me wood in his luggage while coming here on travel.

It required very little fitting to mate to the lower.
My Mark 1 is Enfield manufactured in 1943.
I had thought by then only Mark 2 guns were in production.
Lots of the "finesse" of the BREN goes away as the war progressed and the demand to get them built and out to troops increases.

Richard

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#5 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 04:35 PM

How'd they get that guy in there?? Must have hoisted him in......


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#6 APEXgunparts

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 04:40 PM

How'd they get that guy in there?? Must have hoisted him in......


Maybe he has 2 peg legs?
A Canadien pirate...

Richard


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#7 m3bobby

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 05:56 PM

All Inglis Mk1m guns (approx 60,000 guns) had Inglis Mk1 Butts, Mk1 barrels and Mk1 Bipods from the factory. Later in service they could be fitted with anything. The Mk2 barrel carries a late serial number from a Mk1m so the barrel was likely a replacement to that gun. The Mk2 butt has been fitted to a DP gun as indicated by the white stripe at the wrist.

The British Mk2 (Daimler/Monotype) was in production at the same time as the Mk1 at Enfield. Mk1 production at Enfield ceased in 1944 when they moved over to the Mk3, the Monotype Mk2 ceased production in 1945.

Enfield went on to manufacture the Mk3 in to the 1960s even though they were also converting the Mk3 to L4 (7.62mm). It appears completely illogical to convert existing Mk3 guns to L4 yet still be manufacturing new Mk3 guns but thats exactly what they did.

One of the rarest Inglis variants would be the intermediate Mk1 to Mk1m guns of which theyre were between 500 to 800 made. One of my prize Brens is an early Mk1 (earlier than the one in the Royal Armouries) with BSA wood work and bipod (because Inglis hadnt produced these parts at the time). I also have 2 of the intermediate Inglis Mk1s, one of which is a German capture MG138(e), quite a few of the 138(e) came on the market about 10 years ago but nobody knew what they were so they rarely sold.
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#8 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 10:35 PM

Thanks m3bobby for your interesting contribution. Back in the day when Brens were cheap, really a long, long time ago, I acquired an ED MKI* that went to New Zealand and was so marked,  a couple ED MKIIs, an Inglis MKI and an Inglis Chinese Contract MKII. Still have an ED MkII and the Chinese MkII. Also acquired a Czech ZB 39 in .303, allegedly a South African contract gun with matching barrel and correct .303 mag, which goes a long way to confirm it's factory provenance. Herb Woodend, former Pattern Room dignitary, visited me at one time when in the states, looked it over and claimed that he'd never seen the variant before but decided that it was SA contract. FWIW


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#9 APEXgunparts

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:16 PM

Lots of parts in a BREN and a lot of machine work to manufacture one!
A couple of outfits in the USA have attempted to make a semi-auto receiver, but it is expensive to do.

Richard

 

 

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#10 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:27 PM

I'll go with a pair of peglegs for the pirate!! Can't beat that.....


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#11 APEXgunparts

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:35 PM

I found some info on MONOTYPE company.
You never hear much about them.

Richard

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#12 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 30 December 2020 - 09:17 AM

There are a couple at least of the Vickers MkVII MGs in the NFRTR. They are the early WWII  .303 tank MG armament for Brit armor.  Some years back there was an example at Knob Creek which came out of one of the movie rental outfits and with which I spent some time fooling around. Quite an "ugly duckling" but well refined to its purpose.  
There are a few of the Monotype Brens in the NFRTR as well, but they don't have the charisma of the Enfield and Inglis guns for collectors in the US. 
FWIW


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#13 maxfaxdude

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Posted 31 December 2020 - 12:39 AM

Lots of parts in a BREN and a lot of machine work to manufacture one!
A couple of outfits in the USA have attempted to make a semi-auto receiver, but it is expensive to do.

Richard

 

 

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 Apex,  

 

So true.  I've got a Inglis Mk1 and these guns were so well made.  I'm especially impressed with the Bren's machine work and smooth action. 


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#14 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 12:17 PM

If you think the Bren smooth, you should check out an original zb26.  The British guns were not known for superior machining skills.  Maybe the Canadian guns were more refined?  I haven't messed with one?


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#15 m3bobby

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Posted 04 January 2021 - 03:24 PM

I would say the Czech Brens, the early Enfield guns and the early Inglis guns are all of an equal quality. The later British guns lost the overall frilly finishing of the early guns but at the end of the day, they were designed and built for a job. Im pretty sure the late guns were as lethal as the early guns.

The smoothest Bren Ive found is one of the purpose made 7.62mm Indian guns, but that could be because its as near to brand new as possible.
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