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Likely Gun Control - Forum thoughts


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Greetings,

 

Given the recent events in Florida and the way that gun control is back in the national spotlight,

wanted to see what some of the forum members thought the most likely path forward for gun

control in the U.S. might be.

 

The point of my post is not so much academic & constitutional arguments, as we all know that given

enough time, politicians & judges can stretch the meaning of the 2nd amendment whatever way

they think is convenient at the time (and even SCOTUS decisions can be limited/reversed by

later, more liberal, courts).

 

So the main point here is "being pragmatic"; or, "best buy it now if you really want it"... doesn't look to me

like the status quo will hold indefinitely... I am particularly interested to hear what those with experience think on

this topic...

 

With that as a background, here's my list of 'gun control ideas' that are mentioned often enough, in a rough order of

what I think is more likely to what's less likely, at least in the near/mid term.

 

- Machine gun registry stays closed. 99%+ certain this is the case now and for the foreseeable future.

- "Bump stocks" (and similar) banned. It appears there's a rule change on these already in the works,

and IMO there'll likely be legislation banning these, probably even if there is a regulatory change.

So-- what happens to the existing 'bump stocks'? will they be registered in some way, or something else?

- Magazine capacity ban (ala under the "AWB" from '94-'04). Presumably "pre-ban" mags remain

grandfathered, as I don't think the courts would allow outright government seizure quite yet.

I also would assume that links are treated similarly (no new sales to civilians)

- Semi-auto rifle / detachable mag ban. Recall the last assault weapon "ban" was a bit of a joke, as

functionally identical AR-15 semi autos were easily made ban compliant by removing bayonet

lugs, substituting a muzzle brake for the flash hider, etc., etc. I suspect that gun control proponents

will have learned from that, and fear that any future semiauto bans will be quite a bit stricter / not so easily

circumvented.

- Move existing 'military style' semi-autos onto the NFA registry (or similar). This was briefly discussed

by the usual suspects after the Newtown shooting, but didn't go anywhere.

- Raise the age limit for buying rifles to 21 yo. A fairly new idea, to my knowledge, apparently aimed

at some of these younger criminals/shooters. Support for this seems lukewarm from most quarters.

- Increase the NFA transfer tax. Given that transfers have cost $200 since the beginning, this is an

area that seems ripe for a change; just lucky that legally-owned NFA items are almost never used

in crimes, and stay out of the news by and large.

- Require ammunition sales to go through an FFL. Many younger firearms enthusiasts forget that

this was the law of the land from '68 to '86, and still gets mentioned from time-to-time. Already a law

in the state of California, I believe (possibly others). Not a high priority at the national level, yet, but

might be part of an 'omnibus' gun control law.

- In conjunction with the above, ammo storage limits. E.g., no more than 1,000 rds in one location

without a so-called 'arsenal license' or similar. This type of law would be aimed at those who've

stockpiled ammunition, and the idea got some level of discussion in the 90's, although it never got

enough support to be passed.

- Re-emergence of a national "waiting period," as initially was the case under the "Brady Bill". Could apply

to all guns, probably as part of a broader gun-control bill. I believe numerous states already have

waiting periods for various types of firearms (e.g., California, Illinois, etc.).

- "1 gun per month" type limits. I believe this is already law in California, and is obstensibly aimed

at dealing in illegal guns.

- Gun owner licensing +/- 'mental competency' checks. I believe some states (Illinois) already require a "firearms

owner ID" card. Not a high priority at present; but, given all the discussion currently around mental health,

this form of gun control could move into the spotlight.

- Handgun registration / licensing. This was the focus of gun-control efforts in the 70's, I believe, but

overshadowed today with the focus on semiautomatic rifles (aka, 'assault weapons' in the general media).

Seems relatively less likely, at least not before magazine capacity limitations/semiauto bans.

- Firearms barrels become a controlled item. Not discussed too much right now, but as 3-D printing gets

better, might become a regulatory angle. Ditto for the "Ghost Gunner" project.

This type of a regulatory move would make sense, mainly, in the setting of a semi-auto / AW ban.

 

Those are my main concerns, at least for now; most of the items on this list (*except for an outright handgun

ban) seem at least possible in the next 10 years. And, most of these limits are already law in at least 1 U.S. state.

 

I think blatant gun confiscation, limits on blackpowder guns, limits on air rifles, and other extreme measures

are still a bit off, but perhaps could be part of a "2nd-wave" of extreme gun control, if the left gets its way

(and note that many European countries employ such measures).

 

Thanks for your consideration of this post,

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't care if they ban bump stocks.

 

As for making rifle sales have the same age requirements as Handguns, fine. Better include shotfuns though, because they are the true close quarters mass killing firearm anyway, despite what Biden would have you believe.

 

The rest of that nonsense you listed, pretty much just makes gun ownership more of a pain for the law abiding, and won't do much (if anything for "safety")

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The rest of that nonsense you listed, pretty much just makes gun ownership

more of a pain for the law abiding, and won't do much (if anything for "safety")

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

So I'm 100% clear-- I didn't say that I thought these restrictions should happen, or

that I thought these were good ideas. Rather, just that most of these things

are being done right now in one (or more) states, and could plausibly be

coming to the entire U.S. in the next decade.

 

And yes, decreasing gun ownership among the law-abiding has been a goal

of the left for some time now, I'd say at least since the GCA '68. What they can't

get with an outright ban, they'll get through environmental regulations (think lead),

mandatory gun safety insurance requirements (forgot to put that on the list), etc.

Edited by shadowman
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I want to see the current laws enforced. When they catch up and finally get with the program, then let's see what else can be done. I want ccw persons who have already had their backgrounds checked be allowed to carry any where. I want to see multiple armed guards in schools. Look how the schools in Israel and China are protected.

I like my bumpstock if your ok with getting rid of them, what toy do you have that some other person thinks should be banned. In other words Thompsons should be kept but a BAR should be done away with to pacify the left. Sound ridiculous, I agree. Let's keep all our toys.

Edited by ppgcowboy
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I want to see the current laws enforced. When they catch up and finally get with the program, then let's see what else can be done. I want ccw persons who have already had their backgrounds checked be allowed to carry any where. I want to see multiple armed guards in schools. Look how the schools in Israel and China are protected.

I like my bumpstock if your ok with getting rid of them, what toy do you have that some other person thinks should be banned. In other words Thompsons should be kept but a BAR should be done away with to pacify the left. Sound rediculous, I agree. Let's keep all out toys.

Yeah, but bumpstocks are a gimmick, ment to skirt around the rules, and I think most of us have known from the start that their days were limited.

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Bump stocks federally arent going to go anywhere as are all that is listed. The topic is dead again from the media and those still pushing the shooting and the aftermath are making themselves look like idiots with their lack of sensible knowledge let alone actual. The topic has quickly been pushed aside as more and more information about the sheriffs failure. It was also clear that Florida lawmakers cared more about porn than about guns following the shooting. Anti gunners new strategy was a new scary "weapon of war" phrase that will be here to stay im sure and be just as eye rolling as assault weapon. Many of the proposed laws would be immediately reversed or possibly more.

 

im another not 1 inch and never again should a compromise happen. All these "gimmicks" wouldnt be in production if the registry was open.

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I have to agree with ppgcowboy, the govt failures need to be fixed first. We're facing a bill that reduces mag capacity in NJ among others, which is just rediculous. Unless they are going to serialize mags and who knows what else, if there aisle any grandfather law, who's to say what you already had or not.

 

As far as bump stocks, I don't own one, but we all know it is just a means. There are other ways to achieve the same thing, so what's next, banning belt loops?

 

Andrew

Edited by Adg105200
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My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted. If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these types of devices will continue to get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community. Allowing any yahoo who would never get his fingerprints taken, to purchase bump stocks is putting our collections at risk. I support making them something like an AOW with a 5 dollar stamp. It isn't the money, its the fact they have to get their fingerprints taken. If you are afraid of getting fingerprinted, I don't trust your judgement.

Edited by Sandman1957
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I also want to see current laws being enforced. In particular arresting folks who try to purchase guns and falsify NICS documents. I am lucky that the school my daughter went to already has plans to increase security. We are in a rural area, gun friendly and most folks here have zero issues with armed security.

 

FWIW, companies that are cutting ties with the NRA etc won't be getting my business in the future. Just like I don't watch hollywood movies depending on what clown is starring in the movie.

 

If you haven't already read the book "Stop Teaching our Kids to Kill" by Dave Grossman, highly recommend getting it, sharing it and educating all you know about the link to violent video games and the lack of parental engagement.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Teaching-Our-Kids-Kill/dp/0804139350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519829830&sr=8-1&keywords=stop+teaching+our+kids+to+kill

 

Don't forget to vote whenever you can. That is still our best defense. November is coming fast.

Edited by Sandman1957
  • Upvote 1
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My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted. If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these thpes of devices will continue to get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community. Allowing any yahoo who would never get his fingerprints taken, to purchase bump stocks is putting our collections at risk. I support making them something like an AOW with a 5 dollar stamp. It isn't the money, its the fact they have to get their fingerprints taken. If you are afraid of getting fingerprinted, I don't trust your judgement.

 

Well said and I agree completely. I never thought bump stocks should have been allowed in the first place but the way the regulations were written prevented ATF from regulating them.

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What worries me the most is the individual state laws regulating gun ownership. Why are there so many ?? No need for the antis to challenge 2A they can just do it on a state level and get the same result. I dont not own an AR in either semi or Fa but my friends do and its a terrific platform for hunting, sport shooting, target, competition and home defense. Its a tough conversation with the anti people and i suppose it will be an uphill battle from here on. Edited by Petroleum 1
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I have always thought AOW was the best classification for bumpstocks. But how do you regulate a rubberband and a belt loop?

What I would like to do is ask every person demanding a solution to these school and gun free zone problems. I would ask, If you could turn back the clock and go to the moment and venue a shooting took place, would you if you had a chance and the training use gun to save those children and victims? If the answer is no, they really do not care about the safety of the children

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We can't play it backwards... only forwards. That is why carrying concealed (CCW) has soared. Unfortunately legal CCW and legal use of firearms to stop violent criminals has been downplayed by the media. There have been numerous times legal use of force by individuals have stopped the criminal and ended the encounter. For those who can; step up and protect each other. Many only carry when they feel threatened. Late in the day / night, going through a shady area, depositing money etc. To me, its like my seat belt. I don't know, when I am going to get into a crash so I put on my seat belt everytime I get in the car. Unless I am going into a prohibited area (like going going onto Base to shop, see the Doc etc) I am ready to protect those I can. It still gets in my crawl that the Military still prohibits taking a gun on base.

 

Stay the course, be the voice of reason and choose your words wisely.

Edited by Sandman1957
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Yep, the media doesn't show the 100+X more lives are saved with guns vs the bad stuff that happens. But we have to fight on. If we give them an inch, it is one more inch to their mile. Whether they say it or not, their goal is a complete ban. And what is sad is that most of the people who want to ban guns don't like law enforcement either.

 

I think it should be a requirement to learn about and own a firearm (unless you have any bad history), or if you don't , then pay a tax that goes to the law enforcement.

 

Andrew

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Similar to prohibition we found a way when told you cant have something. If history teaches us anything Americans will find a way either illegally or legally by very carefully following how the law is not worded.

 

I was similarly shocked on the back and forth with the SB tactical arm braces. ATF basically gave up and said do what you want its all legal now

Edited by Speeddemon02
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** NOTE: This post was edited by one of the moderators, to remove references to a another

member's post that has been deleted. **

 

The "antis" are far more knowledgeable about gun control schemes than I will ever be...

nothing I posted here is news to any serious gun-control politician (Schumer, Feinstein, etc.),

or their staffers; and much of it already exists in one or more states right now. And then

their are the schemes in other countries (Britain, Australia, etc.) that they really drool

over.

I only hope to inform some in the pro-gun community of how potentially precarious our position

is, and in turn, be educated a bit myself... many here have been in the 2A fight far longer

than I have. And -- given the $$$'s I've spent in obtaining a legal / registered FA collection, trying

to understand the potential legal risks just makes sense.

"Know your enemy" and "Don't kill the messenger"

Sandman1957 said:

My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how

fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted.

If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these types of devices will continue to

get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community.

100% agree with what you've said here.

A lot of these young killers don't really know much about guns in a technical sense. They're

not interested in a gun's history, operating principles, etc.-- they just see a gun as a means

to kill and gain themselves an infamous notoriety. For example, Holmes [Aurora, CO, 2012

shooting] stopped firing when his rifle jammed and he had no idea how to clear it...

So, much of what these shooters do know is "copycatted" out of the news... and now that bump stocks

have been given a high profile [Las Vegas shooting], I'm also worried the dam could break on criminal

misuse of these devices-- to the detriment of us all.

Not saying they have to be banned, maybe controlled like a firearm; maybe get fingerprints taken

and pay for a stamp (AOW or other). Etc.

 

I was similarly shocked on the back and forth with the SB tactical arm braces.

ATF basically gave up and said do what you want its all legal now

I was a little surprised with this myself, and probably would not have built some of my SBR's (legally

registered Form 1 guns) if I had any idea that so-called "arm braces" would stay legal.

Importation of AK-47 rifles was banned in 1989, but you can still get a Draco pistol straight from

Romania and put an arm brace on it with no special fees or paperwork... go figure.

SM

Edited by shadowman
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There is a high level meeting on gun issues taking place right this minute at the White House (both pro and anti gun politicians). I got a call about an hour ago to prep one of the attendees. Been texting him information concerning crime statistics and use of rifles in murder. The numbers are pretty low when they actually identify the type of gun used. Unfortunately in about 30% of firearm murders, the cops do not identify what was used.
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Seems there is alot of information being passed that is baseless. Alot of ill informed folks in that room. I hope the bill get scrutiny word for word as they come together. Words have meaning, and in this case it will be very significant. I hope they are as diligent on what the bills say as they are in passing something. Having said that, good people are speaking up and trying to keep the faith in ensuring this is done correctly. What a ride!

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Seems there is alot of information being passed that is baseless

 

 

I like how something is said and 30 minutes later one of the media toilets completely change it to their own context.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a book on how that works, it's dry and very boring but once you get through it - you start realizing how misconstrued almost everything we see and hear is coming from the msm.

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I watched some of it Feinstein was smiling ear to ear. Pres trump seemed to be yessing everyone in the room. They were throwing out having background checks on EVERY gun sale meaning no private sales between parties also combining data bases so all background checks have the big picture. I heard a senator in the room say full auto was illegal too? Geez Edited by Petroleum 1
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My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted. If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these types of devices will continue to get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community. Allowing any yahoo who would never get his fingerprints taken, to purchase bump stocks is putting our collections at risk. I support making them something like an AOW with a 5 dollar stamp. It isn't the money, its the fact they have to get their fingerprints taken. If you are afraid of getting fingerprinted, I don't trust your judgement.

While at SHOT Show I signed up for NFATCA. They now offer $50.00 associate level memberships. I had previously thought about this even when the entry membership was higher. Its a complement to my NRA membership. NFA is a small community, I hope they open the registry one day but I feel odds are very low, especially thanks to that little piece of garbage in Florida.

 

http://www.nfatca.org

 

Ron

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My concern is that bump stocks will ultimately bring scrutiny to the NFA community. We saw how fast we got thrown under the bus before, and to think we are out of the woods is shortsighted. If you want to go Full Auto, get a tax stamp. The risk that these types of devices will continue to get used inappropriately is enormous. I am more concerned with protecting the NFA community. Allowing any yahoo who would never get his fingerprints taken, to purchase bump stocks is putting our collections at risk. I support making them something like an AOW with a 5 dollar stamp. It isn't the money, its the fact they have to get their fingerprints taken. If you are afraid of getting fingerprinted, I don't trust your judgement.

While at SHOT Show I signed up for NFATCA. They now offer $50.00 associate level memberships. I had previously thought about this even when the entry membership was higher. Its a complement to my NRA membership. NFA is a small community, I hope they open the registry one day but I feel odds are very low, especially thanks to that little piece of garbage in Florida.

 

http://www.nfatca.org

 

Ron

Aren’t those the guys that caused the changes to the trust rules?

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