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New Semi Owner - Magazine Question


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Greetings all,

 

After years of wanting, I recently became owner of a new Kahr/A-O TM1. This past weekend was our first outing at the range. I put 150 rounds through with almost no problem, a great way to start.

 

My question is this. I have the new Kahr 30 round mag and a Kahr 20 round mag. I believe both to be new production as the mag catch holes are round. Both lock into the gun securely. Feeding was reliable except every now and then from the 30, and every time from the 20, the bolt would lock back with one final round remaining in the magazine.

 

Would it be correct that the most likely culprit is the bolt catch tab on the mag follower and the solution that said tab just needs to be taken down ever so much?

 

Thank you in advance for you courtesies with this!

 

Happy new owner, John

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  • 3 months later...

I'm a new owner also, and also have a magazine question. :)

 

 

My mags won't stay in the gun, it looks as though the catch pin only slightly touches the catch hole in the mag....just barely enough to hold the mag.

 

Two questions actually... One, is this common? Couldn't find much talk about it here w a quick search.

 

And two, is filing to fit wise? Or will that interfere w/ loading or something else?

 

 

I do have a request in to Kahr/AO about it and waiting response.

 

Thanks

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I'm a new owner also, and also have a magazine question. :)

 

 

My mags won't stay in the gun, it looks as though the catch pin only slightly touches the catch hole in the mag....just barely enough to hold the mag.

 

Two questions actually... One, is this common? Couldn't find much talk about it here w a quick search.

 

And two, is filing to fit wise? Or will that interfere w/ loading or something else?

 

 

I do have a request in to Kahr/AO about it and waiting response.

 

Thanks

All your mags? Or is it just one? Let me assume that it is all of them. In that case the

problem is probably your magazine catch. It may be a tad too short to properly catch the

magazines. Now what you haven't said is whether they stay on your Thompson at all or

if they just come out at inopportune times like when firing. Either way it is most

certainly the magazine catch that is the problem. If all your magazines catch when full

on the magazine catch but come out during firing then the catch is a little too short to

keep the magazine in place while the gun vibrates from the firing. But if the magazines

don't catch at all and fall as soon as you try to put them in then the magazine catch

face is even shorter than that. Either way the magazine catch will have to be replaced.

 

T Hound

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Greetings all,

 

After years of wanting, I recently became owner of a new Kahr/A-O TM1. This past weekend was our first outing at the range. I put 150 rounds through with almost no problem, a great way to start.

 

My question is this. I have the new Kahr 30 round mag and a Kahr 20 round mag. I believe both to be new production as the mag catch holes are round. Both lock into the gun securely. Feeding was reliable except every now and then from the 30, and every time from the 20, the bolt would lock back with one final round remaining in the magazine.

 

Would it be correct that the most likely culprit is the bolt catch tab on the mag follower and the solution that said tab just needs to be taken down ever so much?

 

Thank you in advance for you courtesies with this!

 

Happy new owner, John

It could be that the magazine spring is too weak--although two at once like that

seems unlikely. It could also be the magazine trip spring is a bit too strong. With

time that will weaken and the problem will probably go away. I wouldn't do any metal

shaving without confirming the width of the tab. Doing otherwise could end up costing

you the price of a trip.

Edited by T Hound
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I'm a new owner also, and also have a magazine question. :) My mags won't stay in the gun, it looks as though the catch pin only slightly touches the catch hole in the mag....just barely enough to hold the mag. Two questions actually... One, is this common? Couldn't find much talk about it here w a quick search. And two, is filing to fit wise? Or will that interfere w/ loading or something else? I do have a request in to Kahr/AO about it and waiting response. Thanks

All your mags? Or is it just one? Let me assume that it is all of them. In that case theproblem is probably your magazine catch. It may be a tad too short to properly catch themagazines. Now what you haven't said is whether they stay on your Thompson at all orif they just come out at inopportune times like when firing. Either way it is mostcertainly the magazine catch that is the problem. If all your magazines catch when fullon the magazine catch but come out during firing then the catch is a little too short tokeep the magazine in place while the gun vibrates from the firing. But if the magazinesdon't catch at all and fall as soon as you try to put them in then the magazine catchface is even shorter than that. Either way the magazine catch will have to be replaced.T Hound

I only received one 30 rd mag w my gun, haven't bought more yet.

 

It seems to "barely" catch, meaning it will stay sometimes even when shooting. Hasn't fallen to the ground, but it is that loose I'm surprised it hasn't .

 

I believe as it tries to drop, a round gets jammed and so it holds it there til I clear the round then it drops out. Hope that makes sense.

 

.

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I'm a new owner also, and also have a magazine question. :) My mags won't stay in the gun, it looks as though the catch pin only slightly touches the catch hole in the mag....just barely enough to hold the mag. Two questions actually... One, is this common? Couldn't find much talk about it here w a quick search. And two, is filing to fit wise? Or will that interfere w/ loading or something else? I do have a request in to Kahr/AO about it and waiting response. Thanks

All your mags? Or is it just one? Let me assume that it is all of them. In that case theproblem is probably your magazine catch. It may be a tad too short to properly catch themagazines. Now what you haven't said is whether they stay on your Thompson at all orif they just come out at inopportune times like when firing. Either way it is mostcertainly the magazine catch that is the problem. If all your magazines catch when fullon the magazine catch but come out during firing then the catch is a little too short tokeep the magazine in place while the gun vibrates from the firing. But if the magazinesdon't catch at all and fall as soon as you try to put them in then the magazine catchface is even shorter than that. Either way the magazine catch will have to be replaced.T Hound

 

 

I only received one 30 rd mag w my gun, haven't bought more yet.

 

It seems to "barely" catch, meaning it will stay sometimes even when shooting. Hasn't fallen to the ground, but it is that loose I'm surprised it hasn't .

 

I believe as it tries to drop, a round gets jammed and so it holds it there til I clear the round then it drops out. Hope that makes sense.

 

.

 

 

This is a classic problem with Thompsons in general. Likely it is the magazine and not the catch.

If the hole that catches the magazine catch is just a little too big it can slip down and fail to

feed. But if another magazine doesn't cure the problem then it is the catch itself. A third

possibility is that it is a little bit of both.

 

John/T Hound

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Thanks, good to know it is a common issue...I think? Lol

 

This is what I got back from Kahr...

 

"Thank you for purchasing a Kahr Arms/Auto Ordnance product. We are sorry

you are experiencing this issue. We do occasionally see this. The best way

to fix this is to modify the magazine catch hole. Our techs typically use a

Dremel tool to stretch the hole upwards and open it to the sides just a

little. Please feel free to attempt this yourself or you can send it in

with a note describing the issue, requesting service and include the serial

number of the firearm and our gunsmiths will fix it as soon as possible. "

 

.

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Thanks, good to know it is a common issue...I think? Lol

 

This is what I got back from Kahr...

 

"Thank you for purchasing a Kahr Arms/Auto Ordnance product. We are sorry

you are experiencing this issue. We do occasionally see this. The best way

to fix this is to modify the magazine catch hole. Our techs typically use a

Dremel tool to stretch the hole upwards and open it to the sides just a

little. Please feel free to attempt this yourself or you can send it in

with a note describing the issue, requesting service and include the serial

number of the firearm and our gunsmiths will fix it as soon as possible. "

 

.

Ummm....that sounds like the advice for turning a Tsmg magazine into a

working Thompson semi-auto mag--This issue is NOT the same. Buy another

mag from them and make sure it works. Then send in that problem mag so their

gunsmiths rather than their sales people can make the evaluation. It will

take weeks (or even months to get back if unlucky) but if you buy another

to begin with at least you will have that one while you wait.

 

I don't recommend ruining Tsmg WW2 magazines just for the semi-auto but if

you must then THAT is the one to use their advice upon but not with a Dremel.

Instead use gunsmith files and GO SLOWLY--TEST--GO SLOWLY---shaving only a

little at a time and then testing/fitting it your Thompson.

 

John/T Hound

Edited by T Hound
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Thanks, good to know it is a common issue...I think? Lol

 

This is what I got back from Kahr...

 

"Thank you for purchasing a Kahr Arms/Auto Ordnance product. We are sorry

you are experiencing this issue. We do occasionally see this. The best way

to fix this is to modify the magazine catch hole. Our techs typically use a

Dremel tool to stretch the hole upwards and open it to the sides just a

little. Please feel free to attempt this yourself or you can send it in

with a note describing the issue, requesting service and include the serial

number of the firearm and our gunsmiths will fix it as soon as possible. "

 

.

 

MOST DEFINITELY NOT the thing to do in your case! Just wanted to re-emphathsize

that point!

 

T Hound

 

 

Edited by T Hound
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Not sure why you think this is a SMG mag? I posted this in the semi-auto section, it is a mag that came w my Kahr/Auto Ordinance semi auto Thompson.

Sorry for giving that impression Thomas. What I was trying to say is that the

advice the kahr sales representative gave you is probably incorrect or rather

doesn't cover all possibilities.

It is probable, based on your description, that the hole on your semi-auto magazine

doesn't need to be further opened. I believe it is TOO large and causing the problem.

If you follow the advice on that letter then the problem will become worse. If it is

too large then Kahr will have to replace it.

 

However, the thought has just occurred to me also that perhaps the catch is not going

in all the way because the hole is too small. The representative may believe that is

the problem and frankly it could be the problem too. Here is where a picture would

be a big help. The hole should be elliptical not round. If it is elliptical then

it still could be too small. So there are your two possibilities.

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does the mag lever sit in the same position with the mag in as it does without a mag, if it sits back with the mag in there is a interference preventing it fully engaging

 

Bingo

 

 

From what I could tell, the lever (catch) doesn't sit perfect in the hole in the receiver.

 

What I had to do was file the "side" of the hole in the mag....the side that the catch sits a little offset on.

 

Not sure if the catch was just a touch bent, but it was just easier to file the hole slightly so it catches.

 

I'll have to see if future mags fit or not, but my guess is they won't either and I don't know how to correct the catch offset without taking apart....which I haven't attempted yet.

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does the mag lever sit in the same position with the mag in as it does without a mag, if it sits back with the mag in there is a interference preventing it fully engaging

Bingo

 

 

From what I could tell, the lever (catch) doesn't sit perfect in the hole in the receiver.

 

What I had to do was file the "side" of the hole in the mag....the side that the catch sits a little offset on.

 

Not sure if the catch was just a touch bent, but it was just easier to file the hole slightly so it catches.

 

I'll have to see if future mags fit or not, but my guess is they won't either and I don't know how to correct the catch offset without taking apart....which I haven't attempted yet.

 

 

So you are saying that you saw a noticeable difference in the mag catch lever position?

Then the hole was indeed too small or out of shape. Good advice with the lever Laurencen.

 

T Hound

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Okay, sorry it took so long to get a pic, but I got a good one.

 

This shows straight on how my magazine catch is offset in its hole.

 

I imagine w/ further dissasembly it could be "bent" to sit more centered.

 

I believe this is why my mag (and future mags) won't catch properly.

 

I'm not prepared to dissaseble further at this point, looks a little intimidating at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv61/fastestshelby2/DSC01399_zpsldpxds7g.jpg

 

 

.

Edited by Thomas D Gunn
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Thomas D Gunn, on 17 Feb 2015 - 16:12, said:

Okay, sorry it took so long to get a pic, but I got a good one.

 

This shows straight on how my magazine catch is offset in its hole.

 

I imagine w/ further dissasembly it could be "bent" to sit more centered.

 

I believe this is why my mag (and future mags) won't catch properly.

 

I'm not prepared to dissaseble further at this point, looks a little intimidating at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv61/fastestshelby2/DSC01399_zpsldpxds7g.jpg

 

 

.

I examined by Kahr and found that the top lip of the catch is about 1/8 of an inch out when

the magazine catch is fully engaged (i.e when the lever is down with a magazine inserted).

Based on your photo, and I could be wrong, yours looks shorter than that. If so it probably

is the catch. But I also have the problem of magazines tending to fall, but only in the

magazine I modified, before I decided against further mods to historical items. Fully loaded

it won't stay in, but with 6 rounds it is okay.

Edited by T Hound
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Okay, sorry it took so long to get a pic, but I got a good one.

 

This shows straight on how my magazine catch is offset in its hole.

 

I imagine w/ further dissasembly it could be "bent" to sit more centered.

 

I believe this is why my mag (and future mags) won't catch properly.

 

I'm not prepared to dissaseble further at this point, looks a little intimidating at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv61/fastestshelby2/DSC01399_zpsldpxds7g.jpg

 

 

.

A further comment and thought:

 

My catch face is similarly situated as yours is in the photo. Interesting wear pattern

on the catch face. It seems reasonable that this is is where the magazine is striking when

it falls. That being the case your catch may well be too short. Measure its lip depth from

the trigger frame (lower receiver) and compare to mine. Note that I am talking about the top

part of the catch where it should be holding the magazine lip.

 

John/T Hound

Edited by T Hound
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if you push on the mag lever on the side where it pivots does it center the catch with the slot, had a 28 lower that did this some years ago, in this case the previous owner had stretched the spring and caused it to push the lever away from the lower, replaced the spring and it worked fine after that

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if you push on the mag lever on the side where it pivots does it center the catch with the slot, had a 28 lower that did this some years ago, in this case the previous owner had stretched the spring and caused it to push the lever away from the lower, replaced the spring and it worked fine after that

 

Actually it is pretty tight against the lower. :(

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