NotDeaf Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Check out this reveicer on gunbroker http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem....p?Item=23309551 It sounds like he's going to ship it without a FFL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 She mentioned in her ad that guns will be shipped to an FFL. My concern is if the thing is on paper. She doesn't elude to that at all. I would stay away, far away from this one. This gal doesn't seem to know what she has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Yeeoww! I agree, she probably doesn't know what she has there. I hope everyone here knew to stay away on this one. I see the auction has ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Either she realized the seriousness of what she was selling, or she is selling off of the auction board. There is an outside chance that there is paperwork on the gun, but I doubt it. What a shame; another Thompson that can't be had! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif Norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Yikes! She is in upstate NY also...Double Whammy! Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I did get a reply from Judy this morning. She says she is having a class 3 dealer determine if it is registered. Then she says she will register it if it was not registered..... "I'm just a Mom selling stuff" probably will not be a good defense! I'll add to this if I get a reply after she checks it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondAmend Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Gee, just how does she plan to register it if it is not already registered? Get into her "Way Back Machine" and set the time for prior to May 19, 1986? This woman is living dangerously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 If it was never registered prior to or during the 1968 amnesty, it can't be registered. It will be confiscated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I emailed her too after I saw the add, she pulled it about 5 minutes later. Told her to contact a Class 3 to see if it had a forgotten paper trail and that it would be a shame to have to destroy that piece of history. Wasn't there a discussion a while back that law enforcement or a certain type of museum could take possession of an unregistered gun and put it on a form 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 I vaguely remember a thread discussion regarding that; I believe you're right, Dan. It's nice that a couple of you guys Emailed her, and "hipped her to the situation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Dan, Yes, it could be turned in to a law enforcement agency and registered on a Form 10. But what are they going to do with it? I don't know of any US law enforcement agencies that actually use surplus WWII Thompsons anymore. I know that many still have them, but I would venture to guess they are rarely used. Besides, the gun pictured was incomplete and I doubt any law enforcement agency would spend the money to put it back together and not use it. Same goes for a museum. If it is not registered it will probably be confiscated by BATF and destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Looks like she had a pile of emails about this. She said she has an offer for $12K if it is registered. If not I suggested the museum option - the economics of that would be huge - enough to add a parts kit to the donation and still be abnout $3-4K ahead! At least she has a class 3 checking it out for her. Anybody here doing that for her http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 The National Museum of the Pacific War in Texas will take any orphaned machineguns, regardless of condition or incompleteness. I dontated a 08/15 Maxim to them that was just the receiver and water jacket. Over time we will collect the parts and get her running again. Let me know if I can be of any assistance in the transfer. I volunteer at the museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 QUOTE (gijive @ Sep 22 2004, 07:57 AM) If it was never registered prior to or during the 1968 amnesty, it can't be registered. It will be confiscated. Someone should e-mail her and tell her to hid it until there is another amnesty. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cool.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Her latest email said it indeed is registered! Good to see one not have to face teh torch! Now she intends to get it registered to herself.... If she is selling it, but it was registered to another non-relative, how can she do this without becoming licensed herself? Can she sell it thru a class 3 and just "broker" the sale without owning it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 It's nice that it is registered. Kinda strange since it was only a receiver and barrel, but if she says it is registered then I guess there is no reason to doubt her. She can get the registration transferred on a tax-free Form 5 if she is liquidating an estate and is authorized to do so. It also has to be legal to possess in her state. Didn't someone say she resides in New York? That could be another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 You know what we need, a section in the Frequently asked questions that have a detailed plan of how to preserve these as Tman mentions, what type of law enforement agency that could best take initial possession, and then where they could send it (The texas museum?). That way, when you are approached with a "corncrib gun" your immediate reaction won't be to take two steps backwards and then run, it could be "look at this website on the gun topic, then take these steps to preserve the history" Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Deerslayer, That is a very very good idea.. I hate to see these weapons get the torch treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Yeah...her ad said Upstate NY. Possesion here is a NO NO for sure. I know you can only possess them to turn them in. Wonder how it would work with an estate in NY. I would assume there were some legal regstered mg's in the state at some point before the ban. Perhaps her husband or whoever was a class 3? Or something to substanciate her having it legaly. Makes me think she still does not have all the answers since she said she would register it if it was not already. Wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. Hope it dosen't get the torch! Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Latest is she has a buyer for the reciever who offered her $9000 (funny - last time she said it was $12K!!) for the reciever, + the buyer will pay the two (??) $250 transfers. If she adds a fudge factor and tells me the transfer is $250, then the offer must really be around $7500 or so. She asked if I would "beat that offer", so she is looking for bidders - email her, she may be willing to sell it to someone else. I cannot afford it now. I have not seen it other than the first pictures she had. Do you think it would be worth $10K - completed and refinished? That' s about what it would take. Just may be a good deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Sep 22 2004, 06:21 PM) Yeah...her ad said Upstate NY. Possesion here is a NO NO for sure. I know you can only possess them to turn them in. Wonder how it would work with an estate in NY. I would assume there were some legal regstered mg's in the state at some point before the ban. Perhaps her husband or whoever was a class 3? Or something to substanciate her having it legaly. Makes me think she still does not have all the answers since she said she would register it if it was not already. Wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. Hope it dosen't get the torch! Damon Actually, I disagree with that. A stripped receiver may actually be legal in NY but it's a pretty gray area. The reason is that the New York State penal code does not include the concept of the "frame" of a firearm or "a combination of parts" in its definition of machinegun. This is not something I care to challenge but just to throw it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Philasteen, Article 265 of the NYS consolidated penal law defines a machine gun: ""Machine-gun" means a weapon of any description, irrespective of size, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a sub-machine gun." Interesting...does this mean a complete gun? Can it be had in an "unfireable condition" or "incomplete" as long as it is registered? I realize that the ATFE would view a complete receiver as a "machine gun" but would be ok as long as it was registered (federaly speeking that is). The state may not consider this a MG since it is not complete and therefore be legal to own? I seriously doubt it but maybe. The conversations I had with members of the NYS police left me with ALL NFA is banned here for civilians. Not even a dewat or let alone a registered MG...even if it is just a barreled action. Perhaps the state would defer to federal law on what part constitues the "gun". I think if it is a registered MG...it would not be allowed, but will check into it since it came up. Just out of curiosity. Thanks for pointing that out. Will let you know what the NYSP thinks. Best, Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 (edited) QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Sep 28 2004, 01:43 PM) Philasteen, Article 265 of the NYS consolidated penal law defines a machine gun: ""Machine-gun" means a weapon of any description, irrespective of size, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged from a magazine with one continuous pull of the trigger and includes a sub-machine gun." Interesting...does this mean a complete gun? Can it be had in an "unfireable condition" or "incomplete" as long as it is registered? I realize that the ATFE would view a complete receiver as a "machine gun" but would be ok as long as it was registered (federaly speeking that is). The state may not consider this a MG since it is not complete and therefore be legal to own? I seriously doubt it but maybe. The conversations I had with members of the NYS police left me with ALL NFA is banned here for civilians. Not even a dewat or let alone a registered MG...even if it is just a barreled action. Perhaps the state would defer to federal law on what part constitues the "gun". I think if it is a registered MG...it would not be allowed, but will check into it since it came up. Just out of curiosity. Thanks for pointing that out. Will let you know what the NYSP thinks. Best, Damon Well, like I said, it's a gray area - you note the difference to the federal definition, which is: The term “machinegun†means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. Now, I think any conversation with the NYSP or any other agency is fruitless for two reasons. First, all agencies in NYS are anti-gun and have a mindset that anything NFA related must be illegal, and are not willing to consider the issue. Second, even if they were to tell you it is OK, that has no legal effect. The only interpretation that matters is an opinion of the Attorney General (see point one - good luck with that) or a court decision. In fact, there is some case law out there on whether a weapon must be functional to be convicted of criminal weapons possession. I can't remember it offhand. Tommygunner, please do not ask the NYSP about this, it will be fruitless and might lead to some unfavorable legislative changes. There are other defects in the definition of machinegun that I would not want to see fixed. And - edited to add - there is no way I would try to possess a machinegun frame in NY even in light of the ambiguity above. The minimum sentence you'd be looking at is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 years. Edited September 28, 2004 by philasteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 In all the excitement about the Receiver, did anyone else look through the other stuff she has for sale?? At the bottom of page one (she has 8 pages of gun stuff for sale) there is what "looks to be" an original (???) Wanted poster for John Dillinger. Can anyone verify if this is the genuine article??? She is starting the bid off at $550.00. I know that a high price doesn't make the thing original, nor does rusty staple holes. Anyone care to venture a guess?? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIONHART Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Post a Link, and I'll tell you whether it's an original or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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