timkel Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just released. NFRTR is a train wreck. Hiring more govies will not fix. Time to contract it out. http://www.sdslaw.us/single-post/2017/06/07/Today-the-OIG-released-documents-regarding-an-audit-of-the-National-Firearms-Registration-and-Transfer-Record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) Interesting read. Even has a ATF agent recommend another amnesty to correct registry. “NFRTR inventory: An audit combined with an amnesty… An amnesty would have to be heavily advertised well in advance and run for a sufficient amount of time to allow people to be informed and submit registration documents. I believe it would be more effective in correcting records on firearms held by FFLs due to the better avenues of communication such as open letters, FFL newsletters, and ATF website. I cannot suggest a method that would assure 100% contact with all individual owners or dealers.” Additional comments“The same problems have existing since I have been with ATF, there have been numerous supervisor in the NFA Branch and the same problems are there.”“I have none that anyone would find palatable!”“I always have to close the inspection without ever knowing if the problems were resolved.”“I've also had problems getting responses from NFRTR when I need information. Sometimes, I'll call and get someone, and they will respond to my request immediately. However, in recent incidents, I've had to leave voice mails, and even sent e-mails requesting additional information, never to receive responses. I was in the middle of coordinating a possible seizure of an unregistered NFA firearm, and could not obtain information from the NFRTR to assist me.” Edited June 8, 2017 by timkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 SOT to SOT runs about 30-45 days, no back ground check is involved with these type transfers so I do not believe some of what you bring up is the main issue with time involved in non licensee transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Looks like that info is about 10 years old. Many of the issues have been addressed such as online request forms for agents/IOI's, better access to the NFRTR in the field, etc. But some issues have not been remedied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lone Ranger Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 The people who generate inventory reports are separate and apart from those who process transfer applications, so no appreciable impact on wait times. It's possible to have an erroneous inventory report with no registration issue; a firearm specific query is the only way to know. The defendants in the MG morphing case tried inventory reports as a defense and it did not work - which is not to say a different jury would not yield a different result. Attached is the OIG report these surveys were connected to; inventory reports segment starts on page 25 which includes screen shots of the system and an explanation on how reports are generated. OIG NFA 2007.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted June 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 That OIG NFA 2007 report is interesting. Finding errors in reports are common, incorrect or missing data, no procedures or training manuals and so on. The reasons given are dated software, need more employees(already 30+ govies), need more money, ect. This report is 10 years old. It recognizes the issues but has no timeline to comply. What is acceptable in the NFA branch would never be allowed at a regulated business in the private sector. I have experience with a compliance database that was audited by the Govt. on a regular schedule. An audit like the one above would result in people losing their jobs. With fines with a consent decree to follow.I did get a chuckle at the statement when discussing the possibility of confiscating a legally owned weapon due to missing data " NFA owners are required to retain the approved forms to prove registration " So it's really on owners to keep that paperwork available. This is especially important to help heirs , executors ,ect. when the owner passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightguy Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 And this; http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/13/silencer-shop-sends-2m-worth-of-nfa-stamp-applications/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted June 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 And this; http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/13/silencer-shop-sends-2m-worth-of-nfa-stamp-applications/The 2007 ATF plan to deal with the paperwork problem was to "Complete the the e-forms project" Which basically eliminates the need for lots of paperwork and pushes some data entry back out to the manufacturer/dealer/buyer. All great ideas once fully implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dokkerdam Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 if it were possible to convert a kahr Thompson 1927, is it a matter of getting the batf approval and tax stamp and making the conversion or is there a lot more involved? (I have a semi-auto kahr and i'm having so much fun even one trigger pull at a time that I started to wonder about getting an actual class III fully automatic something. real thompsons are $20K or more so if it were possible to convert something - mechanical questions aside - is that a $200 method of getting a fully automatic submachine gun or are there other questions involved). (and lets say for example the Kahr's new T1BSB could be converted - again mechanical possibility questions aside - I just want to learn about legal issues. that firearm has a detachable buttstock and would need the waiting period/tax stamp etc. as a SBR. Once you get that stamp can that gun become fully automatic on the same stamp/application?) Please don't start in on the possibility of converting a Kahr 1927. I just am curious about class iii stuff as I could easily withstand all the federal requirements/inspections/background checks, blah, blah, blah. I know lots of stuff got changed and I wouldn't go that route on a $2000+ gun. But if anyone knows how to buy a full auto Thompson other than paying 15 to 20 grand please let me know (+ the stamp, i'm not trying to do anything under the table). I see 'parts kits' minu receivers for $2k. Is that how some folks can do it or are all these Thompson owners on YouTube missing a car or a bank account? Thanks,1/10th way through a case,dokkerdam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 You better lay your money out now, they are only going to get more expensive. A Riesing is under 10 as are MAC10/11's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted July 11, 2017 Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 No way to get around it. Save up and read up about the terms transferrable, pre-may and post sample guns. I felt the same way about 10 years ago. At the time I bought Frank Iannamico's book on machine guns that helped to educate me. It's an ongoing education but the boards are the best place for accurate info. Join us at The American Thompson Association or Thompson Collectors Association shows and surely you'll get to try out full auto. Just be forwarned that it is addicting and there is no going back. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted July 12, 2017 Report Share Posted July 12, 2017 Per the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, all manufacture of new machineguns for the civilian market ceased. The machineguns that were registered at the time are the only guns available for transfer to non-licensees. Licensed manufacturers can make machineguns but only as sales samples, export, or for government use. I look at transferrable machineguns the same as owners of American cars in Cuba. There are only so many and we as owners continue to buy/sell/trade and repair the ones in existence as no more are being made. As stated above, start saving your pennies. Prices are not going down and more and more people are getting interested in owning machineguns. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 Is the ATF/NFA even constitutional..Eh.. Sucks. Wouldn't wanna play that..And there are more MGs made every year. More are "samples" than anything else. But we all know how much sampling gets done by exclusively the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Posted July 16, 2017 Report Share Posted July 16, 2017 For several years NFATCA has been battling DOJ/ATF for release of current numbers. After a rejection and several well-fought appeals we have the numbers. The total number on the books as of February 24, 2016 is just under a half million: Pre 86 (transferables): 175,977Sales Samples (pre May keepers): 17,020Restricted 922(o) (posties): 297,667There is a caveat in that there is a built in margin of error resulting from manual entries to disparate systems. A copy of the FOIA response is here:http://www.nfatca.org/pubs/MG_Count_FOIA_2016.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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