RoscoeTurner Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 Certainly some here have seen the discussion on Subguns about the new requirement for Knob Creek vendors to have insurance but thought others on the forum may not be aware of this.No doubt this will have a large impact on the smaller vendors at the show.http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv121/roscoeturner/KCR_zpstqpwkcvm.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted June 25, 2017 Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 I can't see how that's going to work out for them. The majority of folks that have tables run it like a yard sale where the just have "stuff" to sell and it's not a business so they have no insurance? I think the only guy at your island/ entire row that even might have insurance/ legit business isn't even supposed to be there? I am wondering if this is a precursor to "if you don't have it, we can provide it at X amount of dollars extra for your tables" ? I had sort of assumed at $100 a table gen. liability would be included for the event? Could be a deal killer for a lot of guys? In my business I'm asked for them frequently and depending on project, I've started to charge for them and in some cases I refuse to indemnify specific parties that are not pertinent to my scope of the project. It's likely their carrier is looking to pass off part of the liability burden and pressuring them to require it? Oddly they aren't asking it of line shooters.......yet, but it's coming no doubt. Then what, policies for spectators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2017 I can't see how that's going to work out for them. The majority of folks that have tables run it like a yard sale where the just have "stuff" to sell and it's not a business so they have no insurance? I think the only guy at your island/ entire row that even might have insurance/ legit business isn't even supposed to be there? I am wondering if this is a precursor to "if you don't have it, we can provide it at X amount of dollars extra for your tables" ? I had sort of assumed at $100 a table gen. liability would be included for the event? Could be a deal killer for a lot of guys? In my business I'm asked for them frequently and depending on project, I've started to charge for them and in some cases I refuse to indemnify specific parties that are not pertinent to my scope of the project. It's likely their carrier is looking to pass off part of the liability burden and pressuring them to require it? Oddly they aren't asking it of line shooters.......yet, but it's coming no doubt. Then what, policies for spectators? Show has been rapidly going downhill over the past few years, I only go to visit these days, maybe this will finish it off and save it from a long lingering death. While I have insurance that would cover me at the show, I choose not to sell there. Too much hassle dragging stuff in and out that I could sell much easier online. I think the only guy at your island/ entire row that even might have insurance/ legit business isn't even supposed to be there No problem with him being there, they just will not rent him a table. Feud from long ago that all involved should have gotten over by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 That is an interesting point as to the shooters on the line or even the match shooters needing any sort of coverage? One would assume (yes I know what happens when you assume) that when paying the fee to enter the show that all liability would be passed to KCR as far as being a spectator. I am curious as to how that will work now that I'm a line RO at the SubGun Match. Curious as to what the show will look like now with them doing this. I have a feeling that IF in the event that someone were to AD or ND a weapon inside the show that KCR could pass off any responsibility, but lets face it, anyone can be dragged into that kind of lawsuit no matter what. I'm going to contact both my insurance provider and my lawyer and see if I can get some clarity on this issue for my own ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 Talked with a long time KC shooter yeterday, he has received no notification that those on the firing line need additional insurance. Seems just the opposite of what you would think, a T-shirt vendor requires insurance while the guy hammering away with a belt fed doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 I contacted a dealer friend I know and he has heard nothing about this. He is now wondering whats going on as he sells steel targets down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 I contacted a dealer friend I know and he has heard nothing about this. He is now wondering whats going on as he sells steel targets down there. Thread on Subguns about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 26, 2017 Report Share Posted June 26, 2017 I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 Bit more to this, a long time line shooter told me this afternoon that those under the age of 18 will not longer be allowed on the firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 I can see that, but are we talking main line or all lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 I can see that, but are we talking main line or all lines? He only mentioned where he was on the firing line with water cooled guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 The plot thickens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 The plot thickens.... There is certainly a back story to all these changes worth finding out about. Other than visiting with friends I would not miss going to KC, it has become a shadow of what it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 I'll see what I can find out from some people I know there. I'm a relative new comer to KCR as I have been going for roughly 6 years now and I can say that I see a difference between then and now. Hardly find anything worth a damn in the show anymore and IF you do, people want top dollar plus 20%......I mainly go to shoot in the SubGun match and see my friends down there. I personally think the Class 3 weapon selection the past few years has really gone down and the amount of garbage AR crap has gone up. Yes I like AR's and have several, but I don't want to look at row after row of uppers or cheap lowers. This is a full auto show and shoot, that's what I want to see and buy. Thompson, Grease Gun, STEN, Beretta 38/a44, stuff like that is what I look for, not another Magpul stock LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 Just to add insult to injury, KC is pouring a concrete pad in the pole barn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksnest Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) Roscoe: That sounds like good news! Edited June 27, 2017 by hawksnest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted June 27, 2017 Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 I had heard that rumor back in April that they were going to do that. That will be nice so now you won't choke on the dust or have to wipe stuff off to look at it (if there is anything there to look at) LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2017 I had heard that rumor back in April that they were going to do that. That will be nice so now you won't choke on the dust or have to wipe stuff off to look at it (if there is anything there to look at) LOL The dust was one of the reasons I stopped bringing items to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 I'm told they are working on reasonable solutions for those that don't have insurance policies as a normal course of business. If you have it, you'll need to provide a certificate, if not they are in the process of some type of work around, most likely a minimal fee to add on to their policy. Most likely as Roscoe mentioned whereby you join some type of association for a nominal fee and the association of KCR vendors has a separate type of policy split amongst many. The gun show promotor in this area does it. It's $25 or 50 a year for the "association" plus your table fees. He does a lot shows so for some guys it's a couple bucks, for some who do two shows it's amortized over them. For those who have storefronts.....nothing but a cert. I'm an assume your own risk type guy, but I do recall a discharge one morning in the pole barn. Personally I think it was a security guy, but no one ever figured it out? It did immediately sharpen everyone's senses and lends some credence to the idea of insurance. I frequently work in high risk areas, so the creek is like a sanctuary for me, but I see their carriers point, and I'm sure that's who's pushing it. As to the line, that's a free for all and most likely has and will continue to be covered under their policy, just as it does during their normal business hours of a normal range so the only loose end is really the twice a year outside vendors. I thought the 18 yr rule has been in effect for a while? Dunno? Concrete......WOW Maybe you misinterpret and what they really mean Is crushed concrete vs. #1 stone? Crushed asphalt would at least keep the dust in check? Hard concrete would actually give the ADA guys a decent chance of getting around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 This is unfortunate to hear. I've never had the opportunity to make it out there and was thinking about going this fall for the first time.And it's already started to rain... Maybe I'll just keep waiting and see if all this passes over in a few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Concrete......WOW Maybe you misinterpret and what they really mean Is crushed concrete vs. #1 stone? Crushed asphalt would at least keep the dust in check? Hard concrete would actually give the ADA guys a decent chance of getting around? May be cement rather than concrete, all seems about the same to me when I walk on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksnest Posted June 28, 2017 Report Share Posted June 28, 2017 Toaster: Come to the creek - you will have a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted June 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2017 From: Gina Carnell After many discussions with our insurance company we have persuaded them to extend the date for mandatory insurance for all vendors until October 2018. With this said, we would appreciate anyone who already has insurance to send us a copy with their contracts or email it to Knobcreekrange@aol.com. This will allow us to share insurance providers with other vendors that have not found insurance yet. Knob Creek will continue to look for reasonable insurance so they can share that information with all vendors.I am planning on compiling a list of insurance companies that we can find to write the policies and put it in your vendor folders. Please let me know if you have any questions.Have a great day, Gina CarnellOffice/Show ManagerKnob Creek Gun Range502-922-4457 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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