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FBI Myths: The Thompsons Of ...Yes...1933!


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As some on here may know........and others may not......the idea that the FBI did NOT obtain firearms until the federal legislation of May/June, 1934 is a complete myth. It's unclear how that all started way back when but if you pick up many books today, view websites or read online/offline gun articles about the Bureau, you'll see this "fact" constantly referenced. What's happening is that authors, journalists and others are merely "piggybacking" the inaccurate writings of others to save time.

 

In order to stop this myth from perpetuating itself, I located actual documented evidence in files disproving all of this "1934 stuff" and recently presented that evidence in a paper. It's now here at our site:

 

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.com/1934-the-myth-of-fbi-firearms/

 

Since there's an interest in Thompsons on this site, I've attached a 1934 letter to a Senate Committee from the Bureau answering the question of how many Thompsons were purchased in calendar year 1933 (and 1934). Most of these in 1933 were a direct result of further supplementing the FBI field offices as a result of the Kansas City Massacre in June, 1933.

 

The 1934 letter to the above Committee is attached for this forum here and note that the serial numbers, if they are of interest to anyone out there, are shown. The copy isn't the greatest so you might have to enlarge it to read the numbers.

 

In all fairness, as some know, there are several Thompson collectors/experts who have presented these Thompson purchases previously in other posts, documents, books etc in other formats.

 

Enjoy the ride.....

 

Larry Wack

FBI (Ret.) '68-'03

post-258934-0-33017100-1401726869_thumb.png

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Very interesting. Is there any information regarding where these guns were purchased, ie at one fell swoop from Auto Ordnance, or were some field offices authorized to buy some in the field. Some of the numbers are hard to read, but may show different info than is on / in other posts, or books.

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I see # 7000 on the list, I saw this one last summer, it is on display at the Cincinnatti Police Museum, it is displayed with an original FBI case, has a smooth barrel, and is noted as being on loan from the FBI.

 

Very interesting info, thanks much for sharing.

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The initial Thompsons were coming out of Federal Labs, Washington, D. C. The actual purchase orders are few and far between in the FBI files that I have and I suspect they are kept in a volume number I don't currently have.

 

I've attached a few docs regarding the initial purchases.

 

larry wack

 

 

33 Aug. Thompson purchase.pdf

33thompsonparts.pdf

1933thompsonorder.pdf

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For my purposes in determining when prior 1934 gun purchases were made, the attached 2 docs reveal what I believe to be the FIRST purchases of Thompsons by the Bureau. These were 2 Thompsons purchased for SAC Ralph Colvin and sent to him accordingly shortly after the KC massacre. I usually refer to them as the "Colvin Thompsons." No idea what numbers they had.

 

FYI, I am not a Thompson/gun collector and my interests in the initial Thompsons are limited in scope to the proof of 1933 purchases.

 

larry wack

 

 

33 2thompsonpurchase.pdf

Colvin Thompsons.pdf

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Larry,

You might contact Sheriff Hudson, he was in KC and couple years ago and fired two separate Thompsons, the PD didn't even know they had. Not sure if they were related directly to the KC massacre. Don't know if he has serial numbers.

 

Sandy

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  • 4 weeks later...

The genesis of the revisionist history that the Division of Investigation (Bureau name before fall 1933) didn't have the authority to carry firearms until 1934 comes directly from Director Hoover through the 1959 film "The FBI Story." It was important for him to reinforce this propaganda in the film because even though FBI agents were armed at the time of the June, 1933 Union Station Massacre, he revised the incident to portray the FBI agents as unarmed sitting ducks. Thus the Congress passed federal crime laws that provided the agents statutory authority to carry guns and make arrests.

 

Robert Unger's 1997 book "The Union Station Massacre: The Original Sin of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI", which relies heavily on the FBI's own files, does an excellent job examining the facts of what occurred inside KCPD detectives Frank Hermanson and William Grooms "hot Shot" police car. That Agents Joe Lackey and Frank Smith carried their own .38 revolvers was widely reported at the time of the incident.

 

Unger's fascinating conclusion after examining the circumstances of events on June 16 was that Agent Lackey sitting in the backseat, carrying Oklahoma Police Chief Otto Reed's 16 gauge Winchester Model 97, with features unfamiliar to Lackey, accidentally fired the first shot which killed prisoner Frank Nash sitting in the front seat. The windshield glass on the outside of the cowling tends to support Unger's hypothesis.

 

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Polythemus/UnionStationMassacreJune33_zps1af61400.jpg

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