mg1928 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 I'm looking to get into a West Hurley 1928 Model Thompson and I was curious as to what I should look for on it. I've already test fired the gun and it ran great with factory Winchester ammunition. It did not like reloads very well. But, they weren't my reloads they were commercial reloads. I need to get back on my press again and get some of my own rounds made again, but I digress. I took a few pictures of the gun disassembled, and as a new poster, was wandering if I can post the pictures here for your guys to check out. I'm picking up that the West Hurley's have their issues and that each gun is different from the next. The thing that jumped at me, on this gun i'm looking at, is that on each side of the Blish lock travel path there is indentions in the metal along those 45 degree tracks. They appear to have factory blueing on them though. So I'm wandering if quality control was really that bad in the 70's - 80's.... And I'm know wandering if those track indentations can be filled up or re-enforced. I'm looking forward to getting into machine gun ownership. I've had my sights set on Thompson's for a while, but I can only afford the West Hurley's for the foreseeable future. And I saw the 22 caliber conversion kit was made for them. I hope Merle still makes the conversion kits. I'll try and contact him later on today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 can i ask what the price is on this WH you are looking at?? Are you specifically looking for a 1928?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 my advice is if you can afford $22-24k to get a WW2 thompson......saving $5k and dealing with potential issues may not be worth it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 There is a wealth of information in the archives of this Forum on Auto-Ordnance Corporation West Hurley Thompson guns. Below is a link to a Small Arms Review article I wrote in 2011 concerning the parts inside a West Hurley Thompson gun. A West Hurley manufactured buffer pilot is dangerous and must be replaced. West Hurley actuators are fragile and will probably break under continuous use. https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=224 West Hurley Thompson's remanufactured by Board member PK. at Diamond K in Delta, Colorado are excellent guns. Unfortunately, the wait time for his expertise is over 3 years and could easily exceed $3000. Please post pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief762 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Make certain that the gun runs well before you put any money on it, and that it has replacement WWII internals installed.My Westie runs very well and it has not been PK'd yet.Chief762 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg1928 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Here's some pictures of the parts that I had reservations about. The left most two pictures I could see a bit of a mark on one of the what I'll call "ears" to the left of the take-down pin. You can see it better from picture number 1. I included picture 3. I couldn't notice much other than maybe some un-even machining. Keep in mind I'm not a machinist by any stretch of the imagination. Pictures 4 and 5, the right most, is what got my attention. And using this post as reference: http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12622 I'm pretty sure those marks in each of the tracks are not supposed to be there. I also couldn't see any fresh scrapped metal. Which leads me to believe that those chunks of missing track were left over from the machining process. And price wise I'm looking at $18,500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 mg1928,I would contact PK. and ask him about those Blish slots. To me, they look very ugly. Just because this particular West Hurley is running now does not mean you cannot have major problems in the future. I would be really concerned with those slots. Look at the flat side of the buffer pilot flange. If you see an AOC or S mark, it is a GI pilot and you are good to go. If unmarked, and not marks can be found anywhere, it is a West Hurley part and needs to be replaced before firing. Good news: this is an easy to find part priced under $25. Look at the sides of the actuator for manufacture markings. If unmarked, probably a WH part. Or post pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 A vintage 1928 might cost you about 30k +or - but a WW2 M1 or M1A1 could be in the 22k and up area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampcollector Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 I am interested in knowing the serial # of this West Hurley. I have a West Hurley and it looks nothing like that in the blish lock area. I know some of the later ones were not the best one's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Those angle cuts for the blish lock are badly damaged. The should be clean and smoothwith sharp angles on the edges and we can easily see that they are being battered as thegun is fired. Walk away from this one. Get a gun that is right and works right from day one.Even though this gun is apparently working its chewing itself up the more it is fired. My $0.02 Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg1928 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) TD: Thanks for your comments. I'll see if I can send these pictures to PK and see what he thinks. And I wasn't aware at the time to scrutinize the flange that much. I'll see if my dealer wouldn't mind checking that. petroleum 1: I really like the style of the 1928. But I'm not at that price point yet. I don't expect the vintage 1928's to come down anytime soon. StampCollector: The serial number is 21XXA. I think that puts mfg date at 1983. Edited February 13, 2018 by mg1928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampcollector Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 mg1928 thanks for the info, not all WH's look like that so just keep looking there are some nice ones out there. Contrary to what you hear not all WH's need work to function. As long as WW2 parts are available you can change out the internals. Mine has never missed a beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 Those angle cuts for the blish lock are badly damaged. The should be clean and smoothwith sharp angles on the edges and we can easily see that they are being battered as thegun is fired. Walk away from this one. Get a gun that is right and works right from day one.Even though this gun is apparently working its chewing itself up the more it is fired. My $0.02 BobYes I think this gun shows the signs of destroying itself although it has been said on this forum, by others, that this is not possible and suggesting WHs need the PK touch is considered fear mongering. These pics are a perfect example of how poor a WH could be machines in the Blish lock slot area. Id be interested if the bronze colored area on the ramp is dried grease or actual signs of metal transfer from the lock to the frame. The lock slots are telling a story, one that will require a long wait with PK to correct. Id suggest keep searching unless this was a screaming deal. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppgcowboy Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 I would offer a very very low ball price on this if I were you. You are looking at a gun that is eating itself up from the inside. It is not even a shooter at this point. I would take reconbobs advice and pass especially at that price. I saw Westies at the SAR show for 18k. Exercise patience grasshopper. There is a decent one out there looking for you, just as much as you are seeking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) Can't quite get what "ears" you're talking about, but to me the receiver rear is the best looking area of this one.The guide rod (buffer pilot) is at a very crooked angle -likely due an oversize receiver hole; this is also something PK would remedy.PK is the Gold Standard of Thompson Smiths, however, I would personally add roughly 50% to TD's PK estimates, just to be safe.Again, if the price is very right, and if you can afford to wait until sometime into the next Presidential term, it could be made into a very good shooter.Or, you could buy something better, and be shooting it before the year's end. Edited February 13, 2018 by mnshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsavoy Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 A vintage 1928 might cost you about 30k +or - but a WW2 M1 or M1A1 could be in the 22k and up area.Once again sorry for my novice question : Do I understand well that it's the price for a 1928A1 or M1A1 ?Here, and in Western Europe, those full-auto are weekly deactivated to be sold to collectors.Also more than insignificant number were kept in authorized dealer to be modified in semi-auto.( example here )I heard about a law that US could not import war weapons from other countries ?Because if it was not the case, you could have had one here for less 2K, some are never used condition.Could you obtain an import authorization, or is it impossible and need to wait the low to change ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticus Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 A vintage 1928 might cost you about 30k +or - but a WW2 M1 or M1A1 could be in the 22k and up area.Once again sorry for my novice question : Do I understand well that it's the price for a 1928A1 or M1A1 ?Here, and in Western Europe, those full-auto are weekly deactivated to be sold to collectors.Also more than insignificant number were kept in authorized dealer to be modified in semi-auto.( example here )I heard about a law that US could not import war weapons from other countries ?Because if it was not the case, you could have had one here for less 2K, some are never used condition.Could you obtain an import authorization, or is it impossible and need to wait the low to change ?? Sadly impossible for a normal US citizen. The law would have to change ,an unlikely event in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted February 13, 2018 Report Share Posted February 13, 2018 http://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9179-wts-auto-ordnance-bridgeport-m1-thompson-20500-form-4-tx/ here you go...a real thompson for $20,500 skip the WH for $18,500....get the real deal easy decision not a pretty gun, but its a shooter and you can always upgrade when you have more $$ in the future.....and you wont have to put $2,000 into it with PK and wait 3 years-----and by the way still own a $18,500 gun when he is done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mg1928 Posted February 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 I've decided to follow the advice of y'all and back out of this deal. I'll keep saving and hopefully will be able to get into a real 1928 model. Thanks for all the help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 mg1928,I think you made a wise decision based on this particular West Hurley Thompson. The defects were so obvious. mnshooter was very observant with the obvious enlarged pilot hole that made the buffer pilot crooked. This is also a common problem in the 1928 WH guns. A Diamond K oversized buffer pilot would have definitely been required (if the hole was not too big). There is little doubt this WH was eating itself alive with every round fired. Now you know more about the subject matter. These points will be important on the next WH you inspect. West Hurley Thompsons can be great guns if the price allows for PK to do his magic. And you have time to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) smart move.....id still consider that $20,500 m1a1....it doesnt use the drums, but its still a thompson at a rock bottom price and right in your price range... i also prefer the 1928, but ive used the drums 3x in 2 years...its a novelty Edited February 15, 2018 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 I do too, but for the actuator on the top, more than the drum option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted February 15, 2018 Report Share Posted February 15, 2018 not a bad place holder...while you save another $8k up ruben had a decent 1928ac for $27k a while back....it was refinished though...1928's seem hard to come by for a long time now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpw43 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 TD: Thanks for your comments. I'll see if I can send these pictures to PK and see what he thinks. And I wasn't aware at the time to scrutinize the flange that much. I'll see if my dealer wouldn't mind checking that. petroleum 1: I really like the style of the 1928. But I'm not at that price point yet. I don't expect the vintage 1928's to come down anytime soon. StampCollector: The serial number is 21XXA. I think that puts mfg date at 1983.Mine is in the same serial number range.The Blish sots had to be remade by PK to make it work properly.The price seems high for a WH that already will require a re-work and a few years waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) I can't believe anyone could wait 2 yrs for that damage to be repaired. 2 weeks is more like it. And before anyone jumps on the bandwagon - I graduated with BS in engineering in 1989. I have owned a complete machine shop since 1998. I've done things way more precise. Edited February 18, 2018 by mohawk64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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