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Travel with MG question


DGinGA
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After 13 months, I finally got my Reising. Waiting for a SW 76. My question concerns temporarily taking my guns out of state for competitions/exhibitions, etc. Is ATF permission needed? I know you must tell them if you move (what about moving within the same county/same state)?, but what about just going to a match (GA to FL in my case; both NFA-friendly states)? Is it just a matter of sending the form, or must I wait for an answer?

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Interstate travel with MGs requires filing a 5320.2 notification of intent to travel interstate which requires info about start, finish locations, etc. You have to file in duplicate and wait for return of an approved form which youi take with you as proof of compliance with the rules. You may only take the MGs into states where it is legal for you to possess them and you must know the laws of that state re MGs.

As noted, if you have a Curio and Relic license, an FFL03, which is a collector's license and not for business, you may take any of your C+R MGs across state lines without filing the notification. FFL03 is $30 for 3 years and takes a couple of months to acquire and is very well worth having if you want to travel with or acquire C+R weapons of any type. With the FFL03 you can receive C+R firearms directly across state lines after purchase including NFA.

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What about traveling with a C&R machine gun if you have an 01-FFL? Does the holder of an 01_FFL have the same privileges as the holder of an 03-FFL?

 

Thanks,

Curl

 

Two different FFL types with two different sets of rules.

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No, an FFL01 is strictly for Title I fierarms business and a licensee has no privileges with NFA without an SOT, Special Occupational Tax reciept for tax exempt transfer of NFA to and from his FFL and other privileges accorded to an FFL paying the SOT. An FFL01 will need to use a 5320.2 for interstate travel with any NFA registered to him. An FFL01 gunsmith can take in NFA for repairs.

FWIW

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DGinGA - wait for the answer, try submitting at least 30, preferably 60 days out. If you know you will do this on a regular basis you can send one in for a year at a time (ie I submit one in January through end of December for a state I am prone to travel to). And yeah - for $10/year, the C&R is well worth it. You just need to keep an in & out book and if you are doing your job as a collector, it will be a one sided book - all in, no out. ;)

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Im not sure the 76 is C&R but the reising is. The fastest way to get approval is fill it out and scan the copy and email it to the nfa addy on the form. Its not super fast but the last time i Filed one that way it was 2 weeks. Like the Lone Ranger said make it out for a whole year so you are flexible. The gun can go back and forth as long as its at one of the two approved addresses.
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HI All,

 

Yes, a 5320.20 is a good idea even with the C&R. Some local LE don't know the rules and a form that they don't understand can help.

 

The other good thing about filing a 5320.20 is to make sure BATFE has you as the owner of the firearm. I've gotten one back with "that gun was sold 6 months ago". I emailed them a nice hi-res photo of it in my hands with my paperwork. They very politely fixed their database and approved my form.

 

BTW, keep the old approved ones. It helps when BATFE decides your gun is not in the registry.

 

Enjoy (and come visit our match in Florida!),

 

Grasshopper

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Get a DOT # comply with the the simple rules and you are exempt from any 5320 filing and you can go anywhere, anytime. Life is full of options.

 

Johnson, more info please. What is a DOT #? TIA.

 

Bob D

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Usually traveling with a C&R NFA weapon is easy, but i had a situation several years ago at the airport in Spokane Washington that caused me to miss my flight. I was travelling to the Antique Arms show in Las Vegas via Southwest Air. I stopped by the ATF office after finding out it was okay to travel on the plane as long as TSA approved the case and lock.The clerk in the ATF office said it was okay to travel through Washington as long as the gun was in transit.I even got here business card.Well TSA was fine and checked the gun and it boarded the plane. The airport cops detained me and tried to figure out what was going on? Long story ,they finally figured out I violated no law and set me free but i missed the plane. The gun made the plane and Southwest was great about putting me on the next flight via Oakland. I arrived in Las Vegas 6 hours later and the gun case was sitting patiently waiting for me.

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Get a DOT # comply with the the simple rules and you are exempt from any 5320 filing and you can go anywhere, anytime. Life is full of options.

 

Johnson, more info please. What is a DOT #? TIA.

 

Bob D

 

Yes, please - is there a transportation statute that nullifies the GCA? That would be both interesting and fun. But congress would never contradict themselves in all those thousands of laws would they?

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478.31

 

 

 

 

 

I would also disagree that with an 01 FFL that you cannot transport interstate.  The SOT is merely a tax return and bulk payment of tax and affords no special privileges other than the discount for multiple transactions. All the meat is in the 01 FFL including the ability to transfer NFA interstate (though tax paid at $5 or 200 a crack) I don't recall if the prohibition is actually in the book, or if they made up a ruling or what, but even so it would be incorrect and never hold up legally based on the fact they allow interstate transfer in the first place.

Edited by johnsonlmg41
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You'll have better odds selling the latter than the former. 478.31 isn't an exemption to 478.28 and even if it was it wouldn't nullify 922(a)(4). You can own the freight company that is registered with DOT - if you ship your own firearm you get a 5320.20.

 

478.28 is more restrictive than 922(a)(4) so you at least have a rationale for that. Congress said you can be a dlr/mfg/imp/collector or get permission. No mention of SOT - actually no requirement for a collector to be limited to C&R firearms, either - that also comes from the regulation. DOJ set ATF straight on 90 residency requirement for aliens a few years ago, so sometimes things happen. IMO not big enough deal to make a stand on the hill over it due to the potential downside if people start holding everything to "by the book". Congress also said $400 to get your gun repaired and no tax exempt inheritences both of those were products of ATF, one by form instruction (as of 41F a regulation) and the other was with only a letter. Maybe of lesser impact, transfers from gov agencies also not exempt per statute while regulation (479.90) exempts it.

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Many of my firearms would actually be registered to the company with the DOT # (not that that should make any difference). I don't see how it is any different than handing the gun over to 18YO at the UPS store (whom are independent and not even registered carriers)? She/ the carrier would fall under 478.31, why wouldn't I as a registered carrier? I will have to ponder this some more! Or perhaps LLC a different name/company as carrier?

 

As much of this falls under interstate commerce (the same regulations as the NFA was passed under) could be congress and atf contradict one another on several issues of transit (among other things). No fear, I am not interested enough to generate a letter!

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The difference between you and the kid @ UPS that matters in the posed scenario is you are the registered possessor of a MG, DD, SS, or SR that is moving across state lines while kid is not. If the firearm was registered to UPS in PA, management wants it relocated to OH, the company submits a 5320.20. If it's registered to your company, your company can 5320.20 or acquire an applicable license, or wait until all business are nationalized by the up and coming communists (after a week long series on CNN about the few remaining non-government shipping companies poisoning orphans with fossil fuel powered trucks because greedy capitalists are paying to get goods moved faster than the solar powered government trucks that can only run 4 hours a day @ 37MPH) then you will be a government entity exempt under to 18 USC 925(a)(1).... but may not have any firearms left to exempt by then.

 

If you think you found an exemption for entities registered with DOT as commercial carriers, that should be a safe subject to write a letter on. Cite the applicable text and ask and apply it to your circumstances- most it will cost you is a stamp and envelope; fairly cheap in the grand scheme of things.

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No, an FFL01 is strictly for Title I fierarms business and a licensee has no privileges with NFA without an SOT, Special Occupational Tax reciept for tax exempt transfer of NFA to and from his FFL and other privileges accorded to an FFL paying the SOT. An FFL01 will need to use a 5320.2 for interstate travel with any NFA registered to him. An FFL01 gunsmith can take in NFA for repairs.

FWIW

 

Not exactly true.

 

If an FFL01 buys a machinegun from an out-of-state individual or dealer the FFL01 does have to go through the Form 4 application, but upon approval the MG ships directly to the FFL01 from the out-of-state seller. This is true whether or not the MG is a C&R and applies to silencers also. The items do not transfer in-state to a SOT dealer and then to the FFL01.

 

Curl

Edited by CptCurl
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