John Jr Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 SUBGUNS LINK Ad Information Ad Number: 7392 Date Posted: 01/25/2006 Price: 59000 Text of Ad Very difficult collection to assemble, with the accessories just as fascinating as the gun, itself!!! 1) 21AC Colt Thompson, #6786. Absolutely NO pitting, rust, etc. ALL original. Has less common wide rounded-fin barrel with Type I compensator. Nice blueing, with deep, rich color wood (from handling over the years, most likely). Tastefully stamped on underside of trigger frame "SPS M" (State Prison Systems, Michigan). Great provenance on this gun. VERY eye-appealing specimen of history. 2) ALL ORIGINAL MATCHING c-drum, #198. While this drum is worn on the edges, there are NO dents, dings, pittings, etc. Stunning when displayed on this gun!! 3) Mills Feb. 1921 canvas spare parts kit, complete with original oil/grease gauze, etc. Perfect condition, including straps. Roger Cox claims (page 39) that it's much rarer than the metal parts kit!! 4) Rusco Type A canvas carrying case. While some corners are worn, this case is gorgeous for 80+ years old. 5) Rusco canvas pouch for c-drum in perfect condition. 6) very old repro "police style" hard case with original brass cleaning rod; in great shape. 7) VERY COOL (although the only Non-Thompson item in this collection) military hard case pictured on page 355 of T. Hill's book. Yes, this is the ACTUAL case pictured!!! 8) Perfect 18-shot Colt mag WITH full box of shot shells. Box does have minor tears. 9) Perfect Colt blank mag. 10) Perfect Colt double-date mag. 11) Original nickel oiler. 12) Original 1921 Instruction manual, SECOND edition. Totally intact, although there are oil-stained pages and creases. 13) nice example of 30's Nassau St. catalog. Of course, pictures are available to SERIOUS INQUIRIES, only, please. Better yet, call me at home: 616-874-8865; or cell: 616-443-0034. Thanks for reading through this. Contact Information Name: Rick Rinzler Street Address: City: Belmont State/Province: Michigan Zip/Postal Code: 49306 Country: USA Telephone Number: E-Mail Address: rooovain@chartermi.net Web Site URL: This ought to ruin sigs statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 It's the "Incredible Colt Thompson Collection!!!" Wasn't Rick Rinzler selling just the drum for $9000'ish last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 This is going to throw Sig's Colt price compilation completely out of whack! If he throws this $59K price out as the highest, then I guess the $45K one comes in? What's up with the spin that a police department/correctional facility marked Colt TSMG has more cache provenance than the hundreds of others in the registry that were spared the armorer's pen knife, and whose recorded serial numbers divulge what PD purchased them anyway? Rink Rinzler. Hummm. It must have to do with people who have repetitive initials. What do you think JJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Arthur, "CE" are not repeat initials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE (philasteen @ Jan 25 2006, 11:27 PM) Arthur, "CE" are not repeat initials. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/cop.gif ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philasteen Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 J. Curtis Earl, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Phil, Actually Rick is a vetrinary orthopedist. Quite a specialty. He is a bit new to the hobby and has been hosed pretty good himself at least once that I know about...even by one of the big players! He has a few pieces that any of us would drool over including a 3 digit Colt. He has made quite the effort to authenticate the items that he buys/sells. He originally intended to keep this for himself but found an M60 like new that he has to have. He is traveling in the right circles now though. He may not be an expert, but dishonest, no way. I think he wants the "serious inquirys only" because he is a pretty busy guy. FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable! Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Jan 26 2006, 04:05 PM) FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable! Sure he did... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Without the advantage of access to these classified photos, even adding up all the goodies using previously known prices for these items, I come up $10K short of the "sold" price. While I would consider the prison mark a condition flaw, maybe the "SPS M" stamped on underside of trigger frame is worth the extra $10K to the mystery buyer? For $30K more you could get the Colt Monitor! Rinzler had a Navy Colt TSMG for sale 9/05 described as "graded by members of the Thompson Club (?) to be between 92-97%" for $29K. He must consider #6786 to be worth $45K(?) by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny.45 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 The Colt Monitor didn't sell @ $80K over the summer so now it is relisted @ $90K? Buy it now before goes up again in a month. Or Save $9K and get the Knights Stoner 63A carbine @ $50K. But It may have sold already? So Maybe the Cadillac-Gage C&R Stoner 63 Rifle @ $65K is the way to go. There are many Good Buys on the Boards. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 As the man said in the movie "Used Cars", a true classic, just before he blew up the Mercades 450 sl, "These prices are just to fuckin' high!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 QUOTE (full auto 45 @ Jan 26 2006, 09:55 PM) As the man said in the movie "Used Cars", a true classic, just before he blew up the Mercades 450 sl, "These prices are just to fuckin' high!" How about $15,000 (and rising) for a 1955 model 14 Randall knife? That is the current price on one on ebay. Tenite is more valuable than ivory? No Bowles scrimshaw work. I guess it's all relative what collectors value for their money. The 560 SL is also a favorite of the oil industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I am with Arthur on the value of the gun itself, perhaps a wee bit lower, closer to 33K-35K at the most given the thin blue and other dings as mentioned in the ad- other than the gun and drum the remainder is is also way overpriced, at least to me. I recently purchased a very very nice 4 digit that was inspected by Mr. Jordan which is unfired but has a very small boo boo on the receiver next to the barrel. If I knew how to post a picture on the net I would and I only consider the gun to be 98% because of the little boo boo. I hope the new owner is happy as a clam and in time we will all pretty much figure its a steal- and ain't that something to ponder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hammer Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 All it takes is one fool to pay whatever the asking price is on these guns, and whammo...that becomes the new price standard for that Thompson class. I have not seen what I would call "bargains" on class 3 weapons in about a year now, I suppose good deals can still be made but certainly no longer over at Bowers or SturmG., everyone there seems to be asking top dollar, and then some! Mike Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1921A Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I purchased 1921AC #6786 and two other AC's from the Michigan State Prison at Jackson in 1986. As I recall, it was in about 85% condition but all correct. It was one of ten Colt Thompsons registered to the prison. Reportedly, the other seven were destroyed in a 1968 arsenal fire Sold it a few years later for $3850 to collector in south Florida. At the time I acquired it, guns in this condition were considered "shooters" by some. The hobby has come a long way since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 21A, Your right, in the past 20 years what was once shooter grade is no longer- for at 26-30k+ a bulged barrel on a true 85% gun might hurt it more than it was even worth back when you sold yours. If the one I just acquired which is real close in s/n range to your prison gun (Alpine NJ Police Department for mine) had been fired I might think about shooting it.... for all of 10 seconds for fear of damaging a barrel and killing the value to the tune of big numbers. Thank goodness I have a Westie I can shoot that cost about what it would harm the value of the my Colt should a barrel get fat on me- though have no doubts I would love to run a drum through this 21 awful bad http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/banghead.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen Und Bier Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Ooh. So I wonder what my 1988 Model 14 Randall is worth? 7 1/2" Stainless blade. Black micarta scales. Got a green catalog flier (in which I personally circled the Model 1 and Model 14 in), sheath, and a black Randall case. Picked it up from the shop myself personally. And I saw Mr. Randall while I was there picking it up. And I thought about getting a patch while I was there. Should make it worth even more, huh? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 QUOTE (Waffen Und Bier @ Jan 29 2006, 03:17 AM) Ooh. So I wonder what my 1988 Model 14 Randall is worth? 7 1/2" Stainless blade. Black micarta scales. Got a green catalog flier (in which I personally circled the Model 1 and Model 14 in), sheath, and a black Randall case. Picked it up from the shop myself personally. And I saw Mr. Randall while I was there picking it up. And I thought about getting a patch while I was there. Should make it worth even more, huh? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif That 1955 Model 14 Randall closed at........$28,200! Even the collector coveted Vietnam era Tenite Randall's have sold for maybe $4K-$5K at most. It's as if the 1955 Randall were NFA registered. Bizarre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 QUOTE (TommyGunner @ Jan 26 2006, 05:05 PM) Phil, Actually Rick is a vetrinary orthopedist. Quite a specialty. He is a bit new to the hobby and has been hosed pretty good himself at least once that I know about...even by one of the big players! He has a few pieces that any of us would drool over including a 3 digit Colt. He has made quite the effort to authenticate the items that he buys/sells. He originally intended to keep this for himself but found an M60 like new that he has to have. He is traveling in the right circles now though. He may not be an expert, but dishonest, no way. I think he wants the "serious inquirys only" because he is a pretty busy guy. FWIW he called me today and is pretty sure that he has it sold for the asking price! Unbelieveable! Damon Damon, Now that Rick has his ad for all the drums, pouches, cases, and brochures listed separately on Sturmgewehr, does that mean that he still sold the Colt TSMG for $59K? Or did he drastically revise his values on the entire package? If he values the accessories at $15K+, then he figured the Colt TSMG was worth $44K+. Did the buyer he told you he had actually pay 10K more than the going price for that TSMG in the condition described? http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale....cgi?read=69460 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyGunner Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Arthur, He said he decided to keep the gun after all. He just sent me the frame from #147 to study and drool over! He has some nice stuff that's for sure. Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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