Jump to content

Barrel Proof Identification of MP38/40


Recommended Posts

I recently bought a MP38/40 from Morphy auction house, its a Inland tube gun.

They say the front sight an Barrel are from a MP38 an the rest of the gun are from a MP40 minus the receiver.

There are three Proof marks on the Barrel, the first one I recognize a military acceptance proof.

The other two I,m not sure, I didn,t know if someone on the forum Might.

My first thought , is the barrel is a military Replacement for a MP40.

 

Anyone s input would be appreciated.

 

Thank You

Davepost-257838-0-46164200-1560466880_thumb.jpgpost-257838-0-37730300-1560467309_thumb.jpegpost-257838-0-09952700-1560467341_thumb.jpegpost-257838-0-81214600-1560467370_thumb.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is a really nice gun. I also have an early MP40 and a lot of the early MP40s had MP38 features like the square hook front site and the slab sided magwell. What code is on the endcap? My code is early Haenel coded 122 40. Does the barrel have triple proofs on the left side of the barrel? My gut feeling is this is not a replacement barrel but is original to the gun. How long did it take you to finally get it? Did you score a great deal at auction? Just curious...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the WaA shown on the picture is 623 then the barrel itself should be from Steyr and Steyr did not produce the MP38

The front sight hood is of MP38 but with Waffenamt 37 which is correct

So i think the barrel components are mismatched

The muzzle nut is the MP40 style

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got the gun from Morphy Auctions.

April 24, lot #1002.

Its Not the C&R I would have rather had.

The only Marks on the Barrel, are the ones in the Pic.

A friend of mine who owns the Gun store ,were the gun was shipped an has it Until I get my Stamp.

He said between 8 to 12 months, He said an I think I did pretty good on the Price .

Total $13200 with 7 magazines an loader.post-257838-0-75712400-1560548990_thumb.jpgpost-257838-0-69006000-1560549021_thumb.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

StG is not Steyr, the Wa codes of which are 660, bnz and swj for MP40s. Michael Heidler's comprehensive volume on armament codes of 1945 states that "StG" is "unbekannt", unknown, and associated with K 98k and MP40.

Basically that is a dead end.

I've seen this barrel mark on the barrels of at least a half dozen MP40s and had wondered, as well, about it's provenance until I got Heidler's book. FWIW

Edited by Black River Militaria CII
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a Steyr made barrel, the Steyr WaA proof stamp is 623

And you see it in the picture

Do not confuse production code and Waffenamt proof

The Steyr production codes for MP40 are 660 and bnz

They did not produce the MP 38

The front sight hood is from Haenel with the WaA 37 proof stamp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The StG is most likely a Steyr steel batch code. IIRC, my all matching bnz 41 MP-40 has this code on the serial numbered barrel. I'll have to dig the gun out of the safe and look. The gun's WaA stamps are all 623 and 815, which are typical. Both are seen on Steyr-made MP-40 componants.

Edited by TSMGguy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

>The StG is most likely a Steyr steel batch code.<

 

Steel alloy codes are numerical with letter prefix, are fairly commonly encountered engraved on the axis of the barrel close to the receiver. They are often confused with serial numbers, but obviously are not since multiple guns are so marked with the same numerical code. A small variety of them have been noted over the years on US owned Mp40s, registered and kits.

I again refer you to the definitive code and WAa analysis and listing compiled and published in German by Michael Heidler, "Deutsche Fertigungskennzeichen bis 1945". "StG" is listed as "unbekannt", or unknown and associated with K98k and MP40. There is no other StG stamp noted or listed or any other printed reference that has the provenance of this stamp.

Do you have references for your speculations. Please post it if you do. FWIW

Edited by Black River Militaria CII
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dose the book your referring to by Michael Heidier, Have any reference to the Middle stamp on the Barrel.

I don,t believe a reproduction barrel would have these stamps on it, even though there,s no serial number.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone can stamp anything on a barrel

 

Erb stamped swastikas and serial numbers all over his guns

 

Many fake stamps on pistols

 

A WaA adds 2-3x value

 

A repro barrel is $200

A real barrel is $500-900

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was always told the barrels with just the mfg steel numbers and no sn are field replacement barrels the armorers carried. There also could have been a stock pile of barrels sitting in boxes that were never installed and got put into the system after the war to repair guns that were shipped to other countries.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A quick internet search has StG listed as a barrel blank code for Steyr for K98s and MP40s. THe WaA623 is the Steyr inspector's stamp. My bet would be repalcement barrel since there is no serial number on it. I would further bet that it was NOS after the war when it was installed on this tube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>The StG is most likely a Steyr steel batch code.

 

 

Do you have references for your speculations. Please post it if you do. FWIW

 

The StG marking is not a WaA stemple. It's only encountered on Steyr made 98K and MP-40 barrels, all of them WaA623 marked. The StG marked barrel on my all matching bnz 41 MP-40 conforms to this convention. Looks like we know the what of the StG marking pretty well, if not the why. There'll be no reliable references unless someone unearths and translates original pertinent documents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 years later...
On 6/14/2019 at 1:43 AM, Annihilator said:

If the WaA shown on the picture is 623 then the barrel itself should be from Steyr and Steyr did not produce the MP38

The front sight hood is of MP38 but with Waffenamt 37 which is correct

So i think the barrel components are mismatched

The muzzle nut is the MP40 style

I was thinking the same. 

 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:47 AM, huggytree said:

Anyone can stamp anything on a barrel

 

Erb stamped swastikas and serial numbers all over his guns

 

Many fake stamps on pistols

 

A WaA adds 2-3x value

 

A repro barrel is $200

A real barrel is $500-900

Good points all. As this is a tube gun, do you really think component value makes a difference since the gun will never fully match? In other words, say we have a Wilson MP40, with all matching parts sans the receiver, compared to a Wilson tube gun (and they are good guns) assembled with original but non-matching parts. To me, the value would seem to be the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...