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WTS/WTT: Wartime US MODEL OF 1928A1 Thompson

1928

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#21 colt21a

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 05:56 PM

I won't post my comments on prices anymore.... Or will be sent to the Thompson gulag.just that the May 2020 copy of firearms news is pretty cool.I am sure you guys picked up a copy already{might be old news by now} And that 1928 Military is a nice one for somebody to fill a empty slot in the WW2 era think "Battleground"one two three four!!!  I am sure in the next few years many quality Thompson's will be going up for sale.

 

"We are the last of that Generation"None will follow.


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#22 giantpanda4

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 06:01 PM

Bigbore, thanks for your references. I think condition and desirability will make up the difference in prices.

 

Looking at the market today, I can go to GunBroker and still see some high dollar '21s. But not selling. If the market were depressed (and I'm not saying is isn't) why are you selling now? I have a nice 1921AC that I probably should sell, but I'm just waiting until people see their paychecks coming in again. 

 

As mentioned... if you don't like the price, don't buy the gun!


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#23 mnshooter

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 06:52 PM

In my admittedly limited experience, every time someone has told me a gun is overpriced, and it should sell for ...this much... 

 

-they never seem to have one like it that they are willing to sell for ...that much.


Edited by mnshooter, 13 May 2020 - 06:53 PM.

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#24 bigbore

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 06:58 PM

Bigbore, thanks for your references. I think condition and desirability will make up the difference in prices.

 

Looking at the market today, I can go to GunBroker and still see some high dollar '21s. But not selling. If the market were depressed (and I'm not saying is isn't) why are you selling now? I have a nice 1921AC that I probably should sell, but I'm just waiting until people see their paychecks coming in again. 

 

As mentioned... if you don't like the price, don't buy the gun!


I hear you, you're not wrong !  Ive had my AC for sale for more than a year, Ruben has had its twin for 2 yrs and wants $4k more last time I checked.   I'm a dealer and I bought it from a member here to resell.  I should have done more home work.   I'm sorry if I'm sending the wrong vibe here, but I really think people should be generous with their knowledge based opinions. 

The first MG I bought, over 15yrs ago was listed in this(I think it was this forum) and everyone said what a great gun it was.   I bought it.  A bit later I posted a thread detailing it and Bob Naess tore my gun apart 20 different ways telling me everything was wrong/mis represented and I obviously paid too much.   I'm eternally grateful to Bob for doing that and counted the purchase as a wisdom tax. 


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#25 Rimcrew

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 10:41 PM

I don't post much, but read everything on this forum.  Several folks here helped me immensely when I was looking for my first Thompson - and I am very grateful for that!

 

I am always amused by threads like this one where anybody and their brother can praise a gun and talk about what a great deal it is; but no one is allowed to comment if they think it is overpriced.  When they do, it's like PC police come out of the woodwork to condemn them for sharing their opinion.  

 

The fact is that the NFA market does not make sense due to very limited supply, and a demand driven by want, not need.

 

In my opinion as someone who has followed all the selling forums and spoken with many private individuals over the past two years, bigbore is absolutely correct in his assessment of the current market value of this gun.  However; if some HNW collector wants a British gun, they might be willing to pay the asking price. 

 

There is no way to know what it is worth until it sells, and that data point may only be valid for this one example.  Price it high and see what happens.  You can always come down; it's much harder to go up.

 

Bigbore, had I not wanted a WWII/Colt gun I would have grabbed yours.  Trust me, I have spent a lot of time admiring it.


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#26 maxfaxdude

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 11:25 PM

Bigbore is absolutely right.  Prices, in general for machineguns are way down.  The highwater mark was somewhere in 2018 or early 2019.  It will be interesting to see what prices machineguns fetch at Morphy's later this month and at RIA in early June.      


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#27 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 06:52 AM

Bigbore is absolutely right.  Prices, in general for machineguns are way down.  The highwater mark was somewhere in 2018 or early 2019.  It will be interesting to see what prices machineguns fetch at Morphy's later this month and at RIA in early June.      


unfortunately you won't really know due to high reserve prices and non paying bidders, even looking at those prices they may or not be true?  True benchmarks are often what you hear reported here than completed auction numbers.   


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#28 bigbore

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 07:01 AM

Bigbore is absolutely right.  Prices, in general for machineguns are way down.  The highwater mark was somewhere in 2018 or early 2019.  It will be interesting to see what prices machineguns fetch at Morphy's later this month and at RIA in early June.      


unfortunately you won't really know due to high reserve prices and non paying bidders, even looking at those prices they may or not be true?  True benchmarks are often what you hear reported here than completed auction numbers.   


Morphy's and RIA aren't like gunbroker. Regardless, if bidding stopped $20k, that means no one was willing to pay more than $20K.


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#29 Robert Henley

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:28 AM

Everyone is probably aware of the old adage, which states words to the effect, "You didn't pay too much for your full auto, you just bought too soon."   The price always seems high whey you buy, but over time it gets better and better.

 

There are ups and downs in the market, just like the economy is cyclical.  This is certainly a challenging economy at the present time.  Cash is King.  As noted in an above post, the seller can always come down if he gets an acceptable offer.


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#30 TD.

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 09:50 AM

bigu2fan,

I would like to see some close-up pictures of the barrel collar with the horizontal fore grip removed. At first glance, it looks like the barrel has been replaced, fairly common for Thompson guns that saw use in military service. Also note how the compensator pin appears to be flattened on one, perhaps both ends. Another sign something happened here. The markings on the top of the barrel are commercial proof marks applied after this Thompson left military service. Robert Henley posted a picture of Page 115 of my book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story, regarding this marking. I am sure Frank's American Thunder series also references these commercial proof marks.

 

The knurled fire control levers are very interesting because of the late serial number. I don't think I have seen an example in the Savage 189,00 serial number range or higher with the early levers. I could easily believe one knurled lever but both. That is noteworthy. The other part that gives me pause in the early buffer pilot with the axis holes or centers (something I have incorrectly referred to as bevels for many years). I would like to see a picture of the "S" mark on this piece. Of course, these are bolt-on parts so they do make for a nice Savage Thompson with WWII British markings.

 

A Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) would be interesting to see when S-189259 was born on the Registry. 


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#31 bigu2fan

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 10:50 AM

While not the exact photos you asked for, these are the ones I have with me at the
Moment. One might be a duplicate. I am using my phone so its tough with this screen so much smaller than my desktop computer.

Attached Files


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#32 TD.

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 12:54 PM

bigu2fan,

Thank you for the quick pictures. I would still like to see some better high resolution pictures of the barrel collar. 

 

Let me state that I have not spent a lot of time studying late Savage Thompson guns. My studies have concentrated on the early Savage guns and the Savage Commercial Thompsons. That said, to some degree everything overlaps. If anyone has any other ideas than what I have posted below, please share with the Forum and we will all learn something. 

 

I cropped the picture you provided and added some arrows. The red arrow points to what I believe is the index line with a square Stevens Arms S mark on top of the index line. Note the other symbols on the barrel and collar. To me, this indicates a replacement barrel. To further the point, note the marks on the barrel fins underneath the grip mount toward the front of the barrel - see green arrow. These horizontal marks on the fins appear indicative of the barrel being placed in some device to hold the barrel during a barrel exchange. This would also explain the compensator pins being flattened on the ends. 

 

Attached File  Crop with arrows - FF05D7.jpeg.jpg   122.52K   45 downloads

 

Does this impact value? It certainly would with a Colt's. A military Savage, definitely not as much. 


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#33 bigu2fan

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 03:02 PM

OK, I added some higher resolution versions of the photos with the front handguard off to the dropbox link in the original post. Also one of the actuator. 


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#34 Blanksguy

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 08:55 PM

bigu2fan,

I sent over those photos that you requested.

 

Regards,  RichardS

US  Army,  RET


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#35 reconbob

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Posted 16 May 2020 - 11:36 AM

   Yes, its a discussion forum, but not an argument forum. You are entitled to your opinion but

its only YOUR opinion. I would bet that this gun sells for within 10% of the asking price which means

he has started it exactly where it should be. His asking price is probably a little higher than what he

will take. He can always lower the price like you are doing with your sandblasted parkerized M1928A1.

     Comparing this gun to refinished Colts at $30K is not a relevant comparison. Citing 5 posts from

Sturm is not exactly exhaustive research.

     And here we are at the tip of the spear - the ultimate Thompson fanatics on this forum who are

tuned in to everything. But there is a big wide world of Thompson buyers and sellers out there who

have never heard of machinegunboards or Sturmgewehr. There are a couple of MG dealers here

that do shows and I am always astonished at how high their prices are. Yet they sell the stuff. If you

are a doctor, lawyer, or Indian Chief and you saw Public Enemies or Sahara and decide you want

a Thompson, $3000 either way means nothing to you.

     The seller has done nothing wrong and I wish him all the best in selling his gun at a price that

is acceptable to him, not you.

 

Bob


Edited by reconbob, 16 May 2020 - 11:36 AM.

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#36 bigu2fan

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 09:54 AM

Thanks! I got the photos and responded. Can you please provide some photos of your M1 that are closer up and with better lighting? One of the right hand side of the receiver was out of focus. I am particularly interested in closeup photos of the left, right, top and bottom of receiver (interior with bolt and recoil spring assembly removed). Also particularly interested in a close-up photo showing the area where the barrel screws into the receiver. Can you please provide photos similar to those that I posted for the 1928? I was just using an iPhone and took the gun outside into my back yard to get some good lighting. Thanks very much in advance for any help you can give. Really looking to trade for an M1/M1A1 that is not a rewatt or reweld and that does not have any police department markings or heavy buffing and/or pitting. I would prefer to steer away from a gun that has been blank adapted. I also have a Colt M16A1 lower if that is of interest to anyone. 

bigu2fan,

I sent over those photos that you requested.

 

Regards,  RichardS

US  Army,  RET


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#37 Eagle3

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Posted 19 May 2020 - 09:01 PM

Beautiful gun. But I think your asking price might be a little high. But who knows you might attract a buyer that just has to have it. You have certainly taken the time to document via pictures, well done.
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#38 bigu2fan

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 09:58 AM

I am open to offers on this gun. Maybe we can make a deal?
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#39 colt21a

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 02:41 PM

Can you guys just imagine if somebody had 20 Colts they bought in 2000 for $5 grand each.And the family ended up with them when they guy left for a hunting trip and never returned. And the family said we need that 5 grand each back now to buy a few new trucks to tool around in.And they advertised today..............Some might question the cond of the guns who had them before.and why so cheap. or maybe not enough money  raise to $20 grand now.buy ten trucks.

And the comments and arguments and opinions would fly. 

 

Who would care what they have or sell it for.....

Maybe the Covid and Mask Madness has infested the Tommy forum.There will always be some left over for new buyers.....Ask MR. EARL

 

P.S. wow got the Colt Pictures darn wrong model.

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