Where does the WH fit in the Thompson World?

[Petroleum 1]

Like the subject says?? Are they collectables or just shooters and rentals?? tia

[geefal]

My opinion only here.

 

Any $20000 gun is basically a collectible.

 

That being said, on the sliding scale of Thompsons, it would be a shooter. I consider my Bridgeport 1928 Thompson to be a "shooter" also, but with a hair more "collectibility" than a WH.

 

The 21's and Colts are the collectors of this arena

[Petroleum 1]

I was watching a new looking WH on gunbroker (#692431024) the seller started the bid at 15k no reserve and buy it now for 19k. The auction ended without even one bid (now relisted) which means someone could have scooped up that gun up for 15k which would have been a decent price in todays market. Why would that one not sell at 15k and there are others (WH) that are selling above 20k?? is there certain sn# more valuable or it just depends on who is ready to buy one at that time. tia

[Gio]

Petroleum 1,

 

On the surface thats a good price on a 28WH. I would want to see better pictures on the inside of receiver and the trigger assembly.

 

If you bought it you would want to put WWII parts in the receiver and I would put a WWII trigger assembly as well. Looks to me that the lock hardware on the Buttstock is aluminum so you would want to change it out.

 

If all checks out you could spend another $1000 and have a good shooter and get your money back at any time.

 

Frank

[Stampcollector]

Just my opinion, I think the West Hurley Thompson's are really a good choice. Try to fine a low serial #. Because for the price and the fact that the majority of them actually function strait from the factory. Some of them have problems, that is well known. I have one that is like it was when it left the factory. It runs flawlessly! And is a beautiful Thompson. And the West Hurley is 100% interchangeable with all earlier manufactured Thompson's. Remember, if you buy one make sure you get and inspection period!

 

Some people will say "oh buy a WW2 Thompson or a colt 21 or28". Well, what I ran into was the Colt's in any condition where out of my price range or WW2 A.O. or Savage Thompson's that where near my price range where re-arsenal ones that looked very worn and where mismatched or a "rewat" And that is not what I was looking for. I wanted a nice original finish Thompson. But to have one like that was more than $30,000.00, that was more than I was able to spend. So the West Hurley Thompson I found was a very early serial # and like new condition. All parts where WW2 from the factory. Payed a few thousand less than $20,000.00 and it's been a great one. It is a Thompson. Remember they where only made in 1921, 1940's and from 1975 to 1986 in West Hurley, NY. I know some will come and say their where made in a few other times but, not in great quantity's.

 

I diffidently consider mine to be collectable. Remember the last one to come off the assembly line was 1986, 31 years ago. And they where the last one's manufactured. And the great thing is I can shoot mine and keep it up nicely and sell it one day when I'm done with it. And make small profit.

 

The Thompson's from West Hurley, NY where the only Thompson's made after 1945 in quantity. After 1986 it all ended, no more can be manufactured and sold to the public. So W.H.'s they are not a bad choice, and all this information is just my opinion only !

 

This info is for a new comer that has limited funds, like I was! I am retired! on a fixed income. Now, that being said... if I had the funds, I would own a Colt or a WW2 one in a heartbeat.

 

And like I said "It's only my opinion"

 

Stampcollector

[lightguy]

IIRC the M1 version of the WH's are good to go.

Its the 1928's that possibly have problems. Not all... some.

 

I always research the daylights out of stuff before buying and have several options to pick from.

When one of them finally pops up for the right price grab it.

I am patient.

It usually takes me several years from start to finish to buy any worthwhile collectable.

 

This 1928 MAY be a good deal especially with a few goodies IF it is trouble free.

 

Remember when you sell it the same concerns will come up from the buyers.

 

 

BTW I have seen worn out shot out Colts selling for 30K.

I'd MUCH rather have a good running WH even if the money were the same.

Edited September 13, 2017 by lightguy

[Chief762]

West Hurley Thompsons don't have the collectable chops that the gangster-era Colts or even the WWII Tommys have. They don't have the price tag, either. Some run better than others, but all can be made reliable shooters with a little help from Thompson smiths like PK or Andrewski. I was advised against buying mine because it was a Westie, but it was what I could afford at the time. I must say I have never regretted owning it for a minute, as it's an excellent shooter. And it'll lay down as tremendous a barrage of full auto hatred as any Colt. Besides, 99% of the folks at the range only know that it's a Thompson, and they are envious.

Chief762

[Petroleum 1]

All great answers guys !!!

[buzz]

I think we're kind of smoking our clutch here a little.

 

 

WH Thompsons were made decades after production ended by small machine shops that reverse-engineered the parts.

 

They are generally considered to be mediocre in build quality and people generally strip off all the original WH parts and replace them with USGI parts.

 

That is the very definition of a "shooter".

 

A gun that has the value enhanced by replacing the original parts is not a collector item in the classic sense.

 

I have not seen any sign of the gun collecting community regarding WHs as a collector item: nobody cares about the originality, when they were built, etc.

 

Collectors don't hoard them the way they hoard WWII guns and Colts like misers.

 

 

I own a Vector UZI. Vector UZIs are a clone gun of mediocre build quality, they have dimensional problems and sometimes they need gunsmithing.

 

Sound familiar?

 

The fact that it's worth $13,000 does not mean it's a "collectable" firearm. It just means that UZIs are a popular gun and the Hughes amendment pinched off the supply of new guns.

 

Nobody ever discusses the collector status of Vectors because there are almost no "real" IMI UZI SMGs in the NFA registry.

 

All there is to buy on the UZI full auto market are Vector clones, IMI semi-autos converted to FA and registered full auto bolts.

 

So the subject of collector status or originality is moot. There are no "real" UZIs to compare your clone to.

 

Nobody gets to play the collector snob, because we UZI guys all have shooters.

 

 

If anyone decides to buy a WH, just make sure you get a chance to shoot a couple hundred rounds out of it first. A Thompson is a gun that generally runs 100%, so if it jams, that means there is a problem.

 

If the WH needs work, you're going to be spending another $3 or $4k on it and waiting 4 years to get it PKed.

 

Although some people have cured WHs simply by replacing bad WH parts with USGI.

 

 

I realize that some may disagree with the above, but before they get all hot under the collar I hope they will remember that I once owned not one but two WHs. Well, I had a deposit down on them.

 

There are no bad Thompsons.

Edited September 14, 2017 by buzz

[huggytree]

for $5-7k more your better off with the real deal....but to each his own...more impressive to have a pre 1945 gun than a late model

[buzz]

I would say that if you can score a WH for $15k and it runs, you should buy it.

 

if you ever decide to upgrade to a WWII gun, you'll end up making a few grand on the WH.

 

Of course, the WWII guns will have gone up by a few grand too.

 

 

But if you're looking at spending $20k for a NIB WH, i think you'd be better served by spending a few more k on a WWII gun.

 

When you shoot the NIB WH, you're going to be taking a $3k hit on the value.

[buzz]

for $5-7k more your better off with the real deal....but to each his own...more impressive to have a pre 1945 gun than a late model

 

 

I think people should get the WWII gun if they can swing the extra cost.

 

The most important thing is to get what you really want.

 

If all you want is a shooter, then a good running WH is a great choice.

 

if you have your heart set on a WWII gun, then sell some blood and get it.

 

Otherwise, eventually you'll be dissatisfied with the WH and end up selling it.

 

I originally bought two MACs and then ended up selling them to buy my UZI, because the whole time I really wanted the UZI.

 

I liked the MACs, they're good guns, but you want what you want.

 

These guns are discretionary hobby purchases, you should get what fires up your imagination the most.

[Petroleum 1]

Buzz...is there any difference in getting a low sn# or the M1 version because there was less of those made or they are all flawed and need tlc to get right?? This WH MI is on gunbroker and it has a 500ish sn#. The shop is in Colorado about 1/2 hr from me.

 

 

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/695243642

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

Edited September 14, 2017 by Petroleum 1

[Motorcar]

Petroleum 1,

 

You have discovered this forum and asked questions from the knowledgeable base that exists here, and they have given much good advice. Now you should invest some of your valuable time in searching and reading the West Hurley guns using the "search" function. There are hours of reading available to you just on the WH guns. All of the issues that have been recorded by the handful of great men that have made those corrections and have actual skills, not just opinions are here. If you are considering such an investment monetarily, then also invest some intellectual time that will pay big dividends in the long run. If, of course you have done that already then this narrative passes on to the next individual seeking knowledge.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Motorcar

[michaelkih]

Just cause I own a Colt Thompson, I'm not going to be snooty about Thompsons.

 

In my opinion, any $15k+ gun is collectible. If it wasn't, it wouldn't cost that much.

 

It goes bang bang bang when you pull the trigger only once. It's a collector item.

 

Not a Colt or a WWII gun? Sure, and that's why it's cheaper, but it's still a collectible.

 

Ok, I said collectible too much.

[buzz]

Let's not get hung up on the word "collectable".

 

Beanie Babies are "collectable." They are also a $2 carnival toy with buttons for eyes.

 

 

In gun collecting, there is "shooter" value and "collector" value.

 

The shooter value is the value the gun has to actually use. Like a used $250 Remington 870 express shotgun you buy at the local gun shop to hunt with.

 

The collector value of a gun is the historical value in the imagination of the buyer. An old zippo cigarette lighter is worth $20. If it was in Kennedy's pocket when he was killed, it's worth $100,000. The $100,000 value is the collector value, the $20 is the shooter value.

 

To say that WH Thompsons have collector value, that they light up the romantic imagination of collectors, is false.

 

They are an exact copy of the historic Thompsons and that is what their value is derived from, as shooters.

 

 

If you buy a WWII M1A1, that gun was made at the Savage factory for the US army during WWII. A soldier used it in combat. It was rebuilt in the Rock Island military arsenal as a war weapon and has the RIA stamp.

 

If you buy a WH M1A1, that gun was made by some tiny machine shop in NY and was sold to a guy in 1977 wearing a denim leisure suit and disco chains. He drove it home in his brown metal flake Datsun 280Z.

 

3,000 WHs were made for the hobby purchaser in the 1970s and 1.8 million WWII Thompsons were made for WWII in the 1940s.

 

Night and day.

Edited September 14, 2017 by buzz

[buzz]

Buzz...is there any difference in getting a low sn# or the M1 version because there was less of those made or they are all flawed and need tlc to get right?? This WH MI is on gunbroker and it has a 500ish sn#. The shop is in Colorado about 1/2 hr from me.

 

 

 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/695243642

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 

Petroleum,

 

Just an FYI, I'm not a collector snob, I'm way more of a shooter than a collector. I don't even want a Colt Thompson.

 

They say the earlier WHs are better, but they are all a mixed bag, made by little machine shops in small numbers. Make sure the gun runs good before you buy it.

 

 

From the collectability standpoint, nobody will ever care what serial number a WH Thompson has. Nobody cares if it was made in 1975 or 1979. The serial number is irrelevant. They are shooters.

 

The WH 28s have dimensional problems with the blish locks, the retarded-blowback mechanism of the gun. The WH M1 types have dimensional problems with the magazine well, sometimes the well is cut too shallow. They all have problems with the lame WH parts like barrels and trigger assemblies.

 

Some WHs work great, some won't fire two shots without jamming. The jammy guns can be re-machined by a gunsmith called "PK". But it's not cheap and there is a 4 year waiting list.

 

Some of the jammy WHs are fixed with a swap of all the parts with a USGI parts.

 

 

If you buy a WH, it should be at a BIG discount from a WWII gun, and you should make sure it runs OK.

 

To pay $22K for a WH is crazy when $25k will buy you a WWII gun.

 

I would absolutely not pay more than $17k for ANY WH Thompson, there is no reason to.

 

At any given time, there are a dozen WH Thompsons for sale on gunbroker. Don't pay a pre-45 price for one.

 

 

If you want a WH, fine. Play hardball, make them sell it to you for $15k or $16k, not $22k.

 

If you want that gun, go to the shop and tell them you will pay $16k and not a penny more.

 

In the meantime, try to find a bona-fide WWII Thompson.

Edited September 14, 2017 by buzz

[buzz]

Also,

 

A few years back, WWII M1 and M1A1 Thompsons were selling for $5,000 less than WWII 1928A1s.

 

Since then, the prices have evened up, they sell for the same price.

 

I think the collector market finally realized that:

 

1.) The M1 type Thompsons are a fantastic war weapon, literally perfect design for a combat weapon,

 

and

 

2. M1 and M1A1 WWII Thompsons are quite rare. Sometimes there are none for sale in the entire USA for months.

 

and

 

3. Buying a WWII M1 or M1A1 Thompson is buying the peak of exotic WWII collectable firearms.

 

http://www.armorplatepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Thompson-rear-Sherman.jpg

Edited September 14, 2017 by buzz

[darrylta]

The only thing that differentiates the WH guns is if PK has done magic on it.

If he hasn't, it stands a good chance of not running properly. If it has, it will

run like a sewing machine and be just as reliable as a good WWII Thompson.

JMHO,

Darryl

[huggytree]

My only experience with a wh is holding one in my hands and cycling it. My s1928 is much smoother. The wh had a gritty feel

[Petroleum 1]

Also,

 

A few years back, WWII M1 and M1A1 Thompsons were selling for $5,000 less than WWII 1928A1s.

 

Since then, the prices have evened up, they sell for the same price.

 

I think the collector market finally realized that:

 

1.) The M1 type Thompsons are a fantastic war weapon, literally perfect design for a combat weapon,

 

and

 

2. M1 and M1A1 WWII Thompsons are quite rare. Sometimes there are none for sale in the entire USA for months.

 

and

 

3. Buying a WWII M1 or M1A1 Thompson is buying the peak of exotic WWII collectable firearms.

 

http://www.armorplatepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Thompson-rear-Sherman.jpg

Cool pic Buzz all the tank crews were issued Thompson's. What is that band around the fore grip and barrel??

[1952HRA]

The band on the barrel and forend is to help the m1/m1a1 forends from braking off, the grip mounting bars That the forend is screwed to on the Thompson was changed from a single milled piece on the 1928s to a 2 or 3 piece ( I can't remember) riveted mount, because the m1/m1a1 mounts weren't one piece they where not as strong and tended to break when used in combat so they started putting bands on them to keep the grip from being pulled away from the barrel

[1952HRA]

Petroleum 1 I would suggest getting American thunder 3 military Thompson machine guns, it's really a must have for any Thompson enthusiast

[Petroleum 1]

I ordered one off ebay ty!!

[67ray]

Vector arms made very high quality weapons. And, until they went out of business a few years ago, they would warranty anything wrong with them at no charge if you just simply sent it back.

There is an excellent article about Vector in small arms review telling their story. It contains a lot more fact than the allegations below.

 

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2867

 

All transferable firearms are collectible. You may not like some of them but that is undeniable truth.

There isn't much tolerance for elitism.

 

 

I own a Vector UZI. Vector UZIs are a clone gun of mediocre build quality, they have dimensional problems and sometimes they need gunsmithing.

 

Sound familiar?

 

The fact that it's worth $13,000 does not mean it's a "collectable" firearm. It just means that UZIs are a popular gun and the Hughes amendment pinched off the supply of new guns.

 

Nobody ever discusses the collector status of Vectors because there are almost no "real" IMI UZI SMGs in the NFA registry.

 

All there is to buy on the UZI full auto market are Vector clones, IMI semi-autos converted to FA and registered full auto bolts.

 

So the subject of collector status or originality is moot. There are no "real" UZIs to compare your clone to.

 

Nobody gets to play the collector snob, because we UZI guys all have shooters.