2017 Gun Digest Article on Winchester 1907

[levallois]

Haven't read it in detail but in my initial skim I found a paragraph where the author claims that in 1938 the FBI stopped using the 1907 in favor of the Remington 1908 in .30 Remington because the .351 wouldn't reliably punch through automobile bodies of the day. I had never heard this before. In fact, I had heard the .351 would easily punch through car doors and bullet proof vests. In addition I believe the original ballistics of the .351 and the .30 Remington are pretty darn close. Finally I didn't think either rifle was "official" with the FBI. I'd appreciate others weighing in on this. Thanks!

 

John

[jim c 351]

John,

Thanks for posting.

I don't think the 351 Winchester was ever bought in quantity by the FBI, but the Remington 81 definitely was adopted .

There are pictures in several Thompson books of an FBI gun vault showing rows of Remington 81s and 31s plus the usual Thompsons.

The reason for the switch is not clear, but John Henwood writes about it in his book "The Great Remington Model 8 and 81.

The funny thing about the switch is the Bureau requested some down loaded 30 cal ammo that duplicated 351 ballistics. Remington found that by using a 25 cal recoil spring they could get the 30 cal rifles to function reliably with reduced loads .

I guess the 30 cal recoil was to much for Hoovers accountants. The FBI dropped the Remington 81 around 1950, so it didn't last long.

I in my opinion the FBI would have better served their agents if they had bought more 351s and fewer Thompsons and BARs.

Jim C

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

I in my opinion the FBI would have better served their agents if they had bought more 351s and fewer Thompsons and BARs.

Jim C

In 1926 AOC made one prototype .351 TSMG. If only AOC could have persuaded the FBI to get onboard with that caliber (calibre) all those Colt TSMG the FBI purchased and then destroyed in the 1970's would have remained in the AOC inventory to be sold to entities not so reckless with taxpayer funds.

[OCM]

They should of hired H S Lebman to direct the manufacture of the Winchester 351s. We could still have them around today in FA.

[dalbert]

Maybe a F/A 1907 could be a project for Dan Block, to go along with his Monitor? We could nickname him "Dan Lebman."

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

[OCM]

That would be a fun project- We already have California John Lebman doing most of these in Semi. Monitors, 07s etc.

I talked to a guy, a long time ago, may have been John Henwood, that opened up the Tucson 07s. He said it was a pretty easy conversion that Lebman did. This guy was in law enforcement, don't know if Henwood was. He had also sent me a letter about it.

 

Sheriff Ernie Hudson was working with us to see if we could possibly get CJL to be able to open up the Tucson guns. Long story that ended with the Tucson PD saying that their department Armor was the only guy that could touch these. OK then.

 

OCM