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Rusco Case and Spare Parts Box on GB


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http://www.gunbroker.com/item/719934528

 

NOT MINE, Maybe it's just me, or the lack of good pictures, but the spare parts box doesn't look right, and the lettering on the case looks TOO perfect.

 

I would definately ask for additional pictures before bidding. With a "Buy Now" of $5500., the owner obviously thinks that all are genuine Colt era accessories.

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Holy cow a paki Rusco case{restamped ink} three original mags and a phony parts case. Estate sale what did he do make that crap up last week with the story. you have $350 bucks there total case and three mags for the lure box and brush nothing.And the Numrich manual he should throw in.

 

or how we have degenerated to the bowels of hell with this stuff.and the tales and prices.

Colt21A Ron

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Case is about five years old tops I had two exactly like it, sold them at SAR show for $200 bucks for both. I think this year at show I will carry a reaper and remove all bull crap deals from all tables. Can anybody just tell the truth anymore.

 

I sold a ton of stuff lately At exactly what I paid for it years ago. books papers, items and made not a dime on it and paid the shipping. After it was all done probably lost some bucks. Did not say estate sale or doctor stuff up or mark it Rusco or Mills.

I guess now today it is grab the new guy and sell him whatever you can and ship and disappear....

 

I must learn this new system... Seems like it works

Colt 21A Ron

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Case is about five years old tops I had two exactly like it, sold them at SAR show for $200 bucks for both. I think this year at show I will carry a reaper and remove all bull crap deals from all tables. Can anybody just tell the truth anymore.

 

I sold a ton of stuff lately At exactly what I paid for it years ago. books papers, items and made not a dime on it and paid the shipping. After it was all done probably lost some bucks. Did not say estate sale or doctor stuff up or mark it Rusco or Mills.

I guess now today it is grab the new guy and sell him whatever you can and ship and disappear....

 

I must learn this new system... Seems like it works

Colt 21A Ron

 

Ron,

I am glad to say there are still some people left that think like you and count myself as one of them, having been brought up to treat others, as I wish to be treat myself..

 

There are however, a lot of 'sharks' out there though, on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

Do we really want to learn the 'new system'? Personally I don't, I am happy holding my head up high, as an honest all round good guy! :happy:

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

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Yeah I still can walk into any gun show in the U.S. and get thanked or handshake or patted on the back or even a 10 cent cup of coffee for past deals and friendship.. I don't know what the heck changed over the years. Maybe it was a Jehovah Witness that came to visit me when I had my BIG C surgery last month and sat and talked with me while I laid in that frikkin bed like a M26 grenade went off on my chest and stomach and she talked with me.. wanting not a dime or donation but to talk. Everybody should go through the crap I have had in the last five years. Maybe they will become a stronger person for it not in just gun deals but all around life. Churchill: said it right 'When Going Through Hell Keep Going"

you get taken down a few life notches when that happens, But if you pull through it. AND Brother watch out.. White Horse Sword and Blood and all that stuff.

Glad you are of the old way... a rare find today for sure.

Colt 21A Ron

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Or the other possibility is that the story is real, it is an estate, and no one really knows what they have, but have done rudimentary investigation on the net as to what the stuff really is and they think it's all original stuff since the guy apparently did have a Thompson? I've seen a lot of collections and a lot of stuff, and I've seen a lot of guys with repro stuff mixed in with original. Some know it, some do not. I've seen advanced collectors with fake stuff they think is original and because it's in their collection others also "assume" it's original because of where it is. Often when a repro item is in the context of primarily original items assumptions are made in error. In my own collection I have some repro items and if I croaked tomorrow only a handful of people could tell some of the stuff is fake and none of them are anywhere nearby and my heirs would have no idea how to contact them.

The last one to make it in here is a fake MG34 bipod. It took a major error in assembly, me taking it apart to fix it raising my suspicion before I got out a magnifying glass and comparing with a known original side by side before I could tell it was fake.

David's pinned reference sections and numerous reference books on the subject have made life a lot easier for Thompson collectors, but there are still items nearly impossible to detect unless you have a point of reference right next to the item. If the guys handle was "Thompson collector", he had 60 Thompson items for sale, and a feed back of 400 I'd say scam, but in this case I see probably an honest mistake.

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Yes J41 you are right after many decades stuff can go haywire like German items, Gramps was in Korea and brought back a Luger story..or the K-98 Sniper in Bosnia.. I have a good one for you my own a Nam bring back chrome P-38. It now resides in a collection in Maryland, Nobody heard of one. Captured off a N.V.A. officer. A repro MG-34 bipod that is a new one for me. Heard of top covers. and saddle drums. And K-98 snipers more now then in ww1&ww2 combined. but hey fun stuff enjoy the history. Japanese stuff is being faked also, Sword shoppers beware.

 

Colt21A Ron

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J41, funny you should raise that, my daughter was only saying to me a month or so ago, if any thing happened to me she would not know where to start with my collection, having limited knowledge and not knowing any values.

 

So I started to document everything after that, still working on it, and in the document, I have also identified items which I know are reproductions, so there is no ambiguity about my collection, should anything befall me in the future.

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

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Sorry to bust your bubble but I was with the guy when he bought the Rusco Canvas Carry Case at the Harrisburg Gun Show in Harrisburg Pa.

It was in a Farm Complex Building.

This was in the late 1990's early 2000's, he paid $550.00 for it. Seller had been asking $625, but he also was purchasing other stuff from Dealer so Dealer cut price. The magazines and Cleaning Kit were not in the Case, just the Case at that price.

He purchased the Canvas Carry Case because it was the shorter version that will not fit the Cutts Compensator models.

Dealer may have trouble selling since most Thompson will not fit.

His gun had no Cutts Compensator on it.

Once atthe Valley Forge Gun Show he purchased 6 NOS 30 rd magazines in the boxs, one mag per box and threw the boxes away when he got home...I said "are you crazy, the value is they are new in the box..with the boxes"

I believe her purchased those 30rd mags from Denise Todd.

In the late 1990's early 2000's we drove to Numrich Gun Parts in NY and took their tour, then asked to see Thompson 20rd mags to buy, the guy brought out a box full so we could pick through and find Patent Date Magazines.

Those Patent Date Magazines were no more money then regular 20 rd mags they were selling.

The clerk said, people who work here don't last long here if the are picking through stuff for themselves and their friends.

Also just list two unopened Kerr Slings from 1950's, these were purchased by a Parts Dealer last name Rica or Ricca.

Rica or Ricca had one open in glass case,yellow straw color, strange to see new and clean.

I'm trying get to permission to open one Sling box to let bidders see.

Back to the Rusco Canvas Carry Case, it's original and beautiful, with only showing small age marks on the back.

Edited by jojeep
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The Rusco carrying case deserves to have better photos taken of it. Based on the lead photo in the auction, I would think it was a reproduction, however there are a few features in some of the other photos that make me want to see more before concluding so. The RUSCO marking looks questionable. It may be the lighting that was used for the photos. Some of them hint of the wheat color of an original carrying case. This may be one of those items that needs to be seen in person to be sure. Photos taken outside with indirect light would help a lot.

 

The parts kit is not original. It's a metal box of similar construction, but it's not a Thompson spare parts case. It's too long.

 

The 1923 Catalog, which is not mentioned as being included in the auction, is a reproduction.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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If you are interested I can email you photos, it does look better in person.

Cleaning Kit??

Somebody inquired to me on Gunbroker.com that the "Spare Parts Kit" didn't exist before 1928 since they were originally part of the USMC contract, the Marines asked for them.

Strange that Mills and Rusco who were making the Canvas Carry Case long before 1928 didn't offer their customers a Kit that fits perfectly in their product.

The Cleaning Kit in the Auction has a very thin hinge area which is it's weak point making it easy to break,making the lid come off or easy to loose. Could be the reason they didn't survive??

Edited by jojeep
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Yes the paki cases repro's look exactly like that and would not fit a comped gun when they arrived first batch. Since they patterned it after a 21a early case that they had to follow later on came up with a 1921ac case. nobody would know that unless they know the importer and the manufacturer.And a guy in pa long ago well over 15 years now made the mills marked material spare parts kits also. so a lot of stuff out there made 20 and even 30 years ago BOGUS or redo.... so sure his mags are patent date correct his metal box and case all speculation.. Guess what a dude watched me buy a drum at SAR show ten years ago and swore I sold it to his buddy three years ago at same show.. guess what I had three drums at that show. did he have forensic proof. and Ricca I think now is long gone I bought a bunch of stuff from him in the past real nice guy and he had stuff still in wrappers from the 40's and 50's Always a good source.like I said buyer beware on the Rusco.. and most early 21a case only marked Mills. and a few not at all. AND A NUMBER of pds who bought 21a's with case got a shorty Mills case. Of course hey who cares I am not buying it. but whomever does I would get inspection period of at least 24 hours. and everybody have a good night. Colt 21 A Ron

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I thought only Mills made the pouches for the 21A. By the time Rusco was in the picture, I would have thought the 21A"C" would have been the more common case to make as it would fit both guns.

 

As a point of interest, here are a few pictures of another Rusco case. Obviously the lighting is different, but the features are good for comparison.

 

21AC Case

IMG_3473.JPGIMG_3475.JPGIMG_3476.JPG

 

21A Case from Gunbroker

Capture1.JPGCapture2.JPGCapture.JPG

Edited by ron_brock
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I noted two different posts on two different threads (http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20763&page=2) regarding the Spare Parts Kit and RUSCO canvas case currently offered for sale on gunbroker.com.

 

There is little doubt the pictured metal case in the gunbroker.com auction is not an original Spare Parts Kit as designed by Oscar Payne, manufactured by Worchester Press Steel Co. (WPS) and sold by Auto-Ordnance Corporation. See Page 173 of The Ultimate Thompson Book (TUTB) for documentation and details about how original Spare Parts Kits came to be. The question: Why was a kit not developed for military use prior to the kit manufactured by WPS? The answer may be as simple as the Thompson gun was not adopted as standard issue by any military organization prior to the procurement by the US Marine Corps for immediate use in Nicaragua and China. Only after combat use by the Marines was the need for such a kit recognized and requested. Since the Marines were the best AOC customer at the time, AOC went right to work to develop the requested item. As we all know, the Spare Parts Kit was also offered for sale to commercial customers.

 

It must be pointed out that MILLS did develop and manufacture a canvas spare parts pouch. See page 633 of TUTB. This is a much simpler container. It is unknown when MILLS designed and produced this pouch. However, documented fakes are in the marketplace so known provenance is key when purchasing a MILLS canvas spare parts pouch. I am not sure if any known original RUSCO canvas spare parts pouches exist. RUSCO was late to the canvas market. A separate thread on RUSCO and MILLS canvas pouches would be a good place to debate this topic.

 

Regarding the RUSCO marked canvas carrying case in the gunbroker.com advertisement, some very knowledgeable Board Members have commented, above. I have no reason to disagree with their remarks. I would like to see a close-up of the rear of the snap on the back of the RUSCO marked case being offered for sale. Those with a known original RUSCO canvas case can check the rear snap on the back of their cases and will immediately understand why I am asking for this picture.

 

AOC and Thompson accessories have become very expensive. It really pays to observe known original items prior to deciding to enter the marketplace. While books like TUTB and American Thunder III are great places to begin to learn about all things Thompson, events like The American Thompson Association (TATA) and the Thompson Collectors Association (TCA) Show & Shoots will provide first hand knowledge that may keep someone from making an expensive mistake.

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Also another giveaway on the first paki cases. when you inserted the buttstock into the side pocket and tried to close the clasp it was super hard almost impossible to close it. Sure they came out with others later correcting some problems. and with different snaps also. and never saw a Rusco marked strap and case on the same case.it was one or the other or not marked at all. even on fifty round drum carriers, and Mills that I saw had been stamped once. And yeah they have Mills and Rusco stamps... Just like Garand stock wood stamps. and K-98 stock stamp's.. heck some well made good stuff smell it up for ten years in the garage or basement And they say right out of estate sale.If Koch can buy bogus bottles of 100 grand wine with bogus labels and bottles, Thompson guys can do the same.But enough case, parts estate voodoo. hopefully the new customer knows the true value. this is just some items mags case and bull crap metal box. nothing scarce or rare. At one time well over twenty years ago I was the canvass king. and had over 100 of all forms of cases.And nobody had to question IS IT REAL?

Everyone have a good week.I have SAR show to get ready for.Colt21A Ron

P.S.

Thanks to TD for his informative post. I don't try to bust balls around here but to inform and help. And I understand I can get a bit gruff to snowflakes.And if some can't man up or take the truth and run with that..as Churchill said when going through Hell keep going.

Those who stop or fail get burned.{yeah that's my part of the saying.} And thanks to board forum members who care.

Edited by colt21a
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Yes the paki cases repro's look exactly like that and would not fit a comped gun when they arrived first batch. Since they patterned it after a 21a early case that they had to follow later on came up with a 1921ac case. nobody would know that unless they know the importer and the manufacturer.And a guy in pa long ago well over 15 years now made the mills marked material spare parts kits also. so a lot of stuff out there made 20 and even 30 years ago BOGUS or redo.... so sure his mags are patent date correct his metal box and case all speculation.. Guess what a dude watched me buy a drum at SAR show ten years ago and swore I sold it to his buddy three years ago at same show.. guess what I had three drums at that show. did he have forensic proof. and Ricca I think now is long gone I bought a bunch of stuff from him in the past real nice guy and he had stuff still in wrappers from the 40's and 50's Always a good source.like I said buyer beware on the Rusco.. and most early 21a case only marked Mills. and a few not at all. AND A NUMBER of pds who bought 21a's with case got a shorty Mills case. Of course hey who cares I am not buying it. but whomever does I would get inspection period of at least 24 hours. and everybody have a good night. Colt 21 A Ron

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Thank you for the correct spelling on Mr Ricca, I was not sure if Rica.

The Auction where Mr.Ricca is mentioned is for two original unopened Kerr Slings from 1950's.

Iam trying to get the Owners permission to open one Sling box to let bidders see. But told them the value is being Sealed in original box.

Possibly cut along seams with Razor and buyer can reseal with glue.

He,... Mr.Ricca did have one opened in his display case at the time at the Harrisburg Gun Show, it was yellow straw color,strange to see clean and new.

Iam not a Thompson Expert, I only own two Semi Visions, but tried to do my research and going on what I know.

Edited by jojeep
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Just think if I handled the hot babes as great as all the canvass I would be famous.It was always but honey no women go to gun shows its only old guys with 12 ham sandwich eating guts. And new guys who know it all in 12 months. And you come home with five calendar's signed, With saying written in "Thanks for showing me that nice Tommy..Or WOW we had a blast...Or that 30 round mag was hard!

okay enough show humor.

 

Yeah yeah those show tail's for another time of stories and tales.. Everybody here have a good week.Putting Rusco and brother Mills to sleep for now, back to some smooth Jazz and good coffee..

Colt21 A Ron

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Thank you for the correct spelling on Mr Ricca, I was not sure if Rica.

The Auction where Mr.Ricca is mentioned is for two original unopened Kerr Slings from 1950's.

Iam trying to get the Owners permission to open one Sling box to let bidders see. But told them the value is being Sealed in original box.

Possibly cut along seams with Razor and buyer can reseal with glue.

He,... Mr.Ricca did have one opened in his display case at the time at the Harrisburg Gun Show, it was yellow straw color,strange to see clean and new.

Iam not a Thompson Expert, I only own two Semi Visions, but tried to do my research and going on what I know.

 

Colt 21A says> Mr R was always a class act with me and had the good and great stuff. He did it for decades. Today it is all but gone. That is why I tell new guys under five years doing the stuff. learn what you can while you can. and grab up the good stuff when you see it. I did for decades. Sure ticked off a few Why?Because while they are thinking and looking and sniffing I went and bought it.

And it was always a good time.. When it no longer becomes fun and interesting... Get out!

Remember it is always the History first.

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