Colt 1921 Navy Overstamp For Sale On GB

[mbc230]

For anyone looking for a Colt for sale. Check this out on GB. Link below:

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/922637915

 

 

[Got Uzi]

Thats a lower number gun but defiantly a shooter grade due to its condition. Be a nice one for someone wanting to get into a Colt.

[brveagle]

He also listed a unique looking 1928a1...

[bug]

The 28A1 is a Charlie Erb gun. Likely a reweld but I can't see it.

[Rimcrew]

Yikes, that one has had a HARD life.

 

Caveat Emptor.

[Bridgeport28A1]

The 28A1 is a Charlie Erb gun. Likely a reweld but I can't see it.

 

Has what appears to be a WB Waldemar Broberg inspection stamp on the front left along with a S serial number. It was overhauled by AOC in 1945 as indicated by the AO45 stamp. The WB stamp, if that is what it is and the S (Savage) serial number should not go together as WB was the Ordnance Inspector for the Bridgeport plant.

[TSMG28]

The 28A1 appears to be a completely fabricated gun. The trigger frame is a reproduction, not WWII. The receiver serial number was also applied much later by someone who does not understand Thompson markings. As noted, this receiver would not have an S serial number, and the font is all wrong. The double-struck WB looks strange but could be legitimate, as may be the AO45, but if Bridgeport AO did rework this gun, why would they have put a Savage serial number on it?

 

I have no idea what serial number is in the trigger frame, and the rear sight is missing most of the sight mechanism (ladder only).

 

I have no experience with Charlie Erb guns, but he may have simply cobbled this one together because he could.

 

The Colt trigger frame also seems odd to me. The markings are the later style, which I would not expect to see on a serial number this early. We know that the shift in markings of the trigger frame is inconsistent based on serial number, but the FIRE/SAFE and FULL AUTO/SINGLE are both later period markings. That said, the NC State Bureau of Investigation provenance is interesting, especially considering the guns condition.

 

FWIW

[mbc230]

What do you guys think each one of them is worth? Value wise? Are the prices good?

Edited January 27, 2022 by mbc230

[laurencen]

that lower is way off original, the engraving is or appears hand stamped but could have been done decades ago

[Colt Chopper]

On the Colt, no pics of the internals or index mark. The wood doesn't look right, maybe GI Jive will comment.

[firearm]

What do you guys think each one of them is worth? Value wise? Are the prices good?

My 2 cents (as I am always asking what things are worth). This thing is a junker. The money is always in top end guns. Especially 21 Colt's that are correct and in the 90% plus range. I would rate this thing in the 70% or less category. $25K to $28K would be a fair price on this as a shooter IMHO. I looked at one yesterday that has a much nicer finish. Probably an 85% weapon. Fairly nice wood but it had a Remington acutator and a Savage bolt in it. My offer was $30K for what that is worth. Maybe a benchmark for you. Then again, the next guy might throw $50K at the one on Gunbroker. The market is just crazy these days as there is so much money being printed.

[mbc230]

 

What do you guys think each one of them is worth? Value wise? Are the prices good?

My 2 cents (as I am always asking what things are worth). This thing is a junker. The money is always in top end guns. Especially 21 Colt's that are correct and in the 90% plus range. I would rate this thing in the 70% or less category. $25K to $28K would be a fair price on this as a shooter IMHO. I looked at one yesterday that has a much nicer finish. Probably an 85% weapon. Fairly nice wood but it had a Remington acutator and a Savage bolt in it. My offer was $30K for what that is worth. Maybe a benchmark for you. Then again, the next guy might throw $50K at the one on Gunbroker. The market is just crazy these days as there is so much money being printed.

 

I completely agree with your assessment. I was going to say $24K to $25, but sellers will shoot for the moon so who knows. The 28A1 is more what I am looking for, but I would go for the Colt as a shooter if the price is right. Thank you.

[Ron Mills]

And its ORDNANCE, not Ordinance. So many uninformed sellers do that. Dunno why that bugs me, but it does. And yeah that Navy doesn't appear to have had the greatest of care. I didn't know Charlie Erb did Thompsons. I learned something new. Never too late. Edited January 28, 2022 by Ron Mills

[TD.]

NO 1918 is certainly an interesting Colt. The NAVY conversion and late marked frame are definitely noteworthy. A Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request may provide some additional historical information. I do like the North Carolina Department of Justice inventory sticker.

 

I agree with Nick about NO 1918 basically being a junker. That said, it would probably make for an excellent shooter grade Colt's if the price was right. The barrel is very suspect with that large barrel collar, the grip is from WWII and the buttstock with the sling swivel is very suspect. The actuator looks to be Colt's but I cannot tell which model. I am guessing 28 NAVY based on what I can see of the buffer pilot - but that is just a guess. A look at the internals is definitely in order. Since I am not a dealer and would not purchase for resale, I would probably offer somewhere around 28K to 29K to have a shooter grade Colt's depending on what other problems are revealed.

 

As to the frame markings, I too thought the late markings were unusual. However, a quick check in my picture file revealed Colt's NO 1908 (ten guns earlier) has the same late frame markings. And a similar buttstock! Those with Gordon's book should look up the interesting history of NO 1908. What was going on at Colt's and AOC with these early 1900 guns.

 

 

 

 

[gijive]

TD,

Good call on the barrel. It seems to have the proper fin count but the wide collar/shoulder is unusual. The rear grip appears to be a WWII (Dittenborn Contractor "D"), or maybe an early Savage. The buttstock is likely WWII with the Springfield type swivel present. Would make a nice shooter, though.

[brveagle]

Looks like the seller posted pretty detailed pictures of both guns internals.

[TD.]

The frame internals look good. I would like to see the back end of the bolt and the markings and both sides of the Blish lock. I would also like to see the shape between the actuator cocking ears and the back of the actuator. It is not the 1st variation riveted actuator but appears to be Colt's. The buffer pilot looks correct with no-hole in the shaft. The West Hurley L drum adds very little value

[reconbob]

I just talked to a guy who recently bid on and won a Thompson on Gunbroker. When the auction was over he looked at the bid history and the same person had submitted over 10 bids in smaller ($500?) increments to drive the price up. The guy thought it was a scam because the bidder who ran the price up had never bought or sold anything and had an NR rating. Whether it was the seller using another name, or an accomplice, the guy refused to pay more than his last bid and pointed out the scam to GB.

 

He ended up not paying and I dont know if he got banned from GB or not.

 

I had never heard of this but the guy says it happens all the time.

 

For a major purchase like this I would avoid GB. Caveat Emptor.

 

Bob

[Robert Henley]

I just talked to a guy who recently bid on and won a Thompson on Gunbroker. When the auction was over he looked at the bid history and the same person had submitted over 10 bids in smaller ($500?) increments to drive the price up. The guy thought it was a scam because the bidder who ran the price up had never bought or sold anything and had an NR rating. Whether it was the seller using another name, or an accomplice, the guy refused to pay more than his last bid and pointed out the scam to GB.

 

He ended up not paying and I dont know if he got banned from GB or not.

 

I had never heard of this but the guy says it happens all the time.

 

For a major purchase like this I would avoid GB. Caveat Emptor.

 

Bob

 

Not sure why the high bidder in this example, who it sounds like turned out to be a non-paying bidder, just didn't quit bidding instead of bidding it up higher himself after the person who he thought was committing a scam bid up the price. You can see the bid activity as it occurs.

 

I've said before if you are a seller and get a non-paying bidder on GB good luck getting the GB fees credited to your GB account. Maybe it will go smoothly and maybe not. I had a non-paying bidder on an item, and it took me many months and much correspondence with GB (much of it ignored by GB) to get it straight. GB doesn't have a call center, so there's no one to talk to about any issues. I finally got it straight, but it wasn't worth all the trouble. If it's a high dollar item the GB fees, and now state taxes which are charged to the seller, can be substantial.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Robert Henley

[DZelenka]

 

I just talked to a guy who recently bid on and won a Thompson on Gunbroker. When the auction was over he looked at the bid history and the same person had submitted over 10 bids in smaller ($500?) increments to drive the price up. The guy thought it was a scam because the bidder who ran the price up had never bought or sold anything and had an NR rating. Whether it was the seller using another name, or an accomplice, the guy refused to pay more than his last bid and pointed out the scam to GB.

 

He ended up not paying and I dont know if he got banned from GB or not.

 

I had never heard of this but the guy says it happens all the time.

 

For a major purchase like this I would avoid GB. Caveat Emptor.

 

Bob

 

Not sure why the high bidder in this example, who it sounds like turned out to be a non-paying bidder, just didn't quit bidding instead of bidding it up higher himself after the person who he thought was committing a scam bid up the price. You can see the bid activity as it occurs.

 

I've said before if you are a seller and get a non-paying bidder on GB good luck getting the GB fees credited to your GB account. Maybe it will go smoothly and maybe not. I had a non-paying bidder on an item, and it took me many months and much correspondence with GB (much of it ignored by GB) to get it straight. GB doesn't have a call center, so there's no one to talk to about any issues. I finally got it straight, but it wasn't worth all the trouble. If it's a high dollar item the GB fees, and now state taxes which are charged to the seller, can be substantial.

I sell a fair amount on GunBroker and have never had difficulty getting fees credited back to my account for a non-paying bidder. In fact, they have actually made it easier in the past several months.

 

Dan

[reconbob]

The guy who submitted all of the incremental bids did not win

the auction, just ran up the price and stopped. If he would have had

any activity - purchases or sales at all - the guy who won would not

have called it out.

 

Bob

[Robert Henley]

 

 

I just talked to a guy who recently bid on and won a Thompson on Gunbroker. When the auction was over he looked at the bid history and the same person had submitted over 10 bids in smaller ($500?) increments to drive the price up. The guy thought it was a scam because the bidder who ran the price up had never bought or sold anything and had an NR rating. Whether it was the seller using another name, or an accomplice, the guy refused to pay more than his last bid and pointed out the scam to GB.

 

He ended up not paying and I dont know if he got banned from GB or not.

 

I had never heard of this but the guy says it happens all the time.

 

For a major purchase like this I would avoid GB. Caveat Emptor.

 

Bob

 

Not sure why the high bidder in this example, who it sounds like turned out to be a non-paying bidder, just didn't quit bidding instead of bidding it up higher himself after the person who he thought was committing a scam bid up the price. You can see the bid activity as it occurs.

 

I've said before if you are a seller and get a non-paying bidder on GB good luck getting the GB fees credited to your GB account. Maybe it will go smoothly and maybe not. I had a non-paying bidder on an item, and it took me many months and much correspondence with GB (much of it ignored by GB) to get it straight. GB doesn't have a call center, so there's no one to talk to about any issues. I finally got it straight, but it wasn't worth all the trouble. If it's a high dollar item the GB fees, and now state taxes which are charged to the seller, can be substantial.

I sell a fair amount on GunBroker and have never had difficulty getting fees credited back to my account for a non-paying bidder. In fact, they have actually made it easier in the past several months.

 

Dan

 

Dan,

 

I'll let you act as my lawyer next time and hopefully get quicker results. Seriously, the non-paying bidder I had disputed that he was a non-paying bidder and claimed he mailed payment. I had recommended he send payment with a tracking number, and when I asked him for the tracking number he never gave it to me or responded. I subscribe to USPS Informed Delivery, and I can see what mail is coming to me including all packages with a tracking number. I never saw a thing from the guy. I don't believe he mailed anything. I mention all that because if a non-paying bidder disputes it (not sure if you've had one of those) it could take some time to get credited for fees and taxes--at least that's what happened to me. I hope I never have that problem again, but with a machine gun costing tens of thousands of dollars the fees and taxes are substantial. I'm very leery now of selling on GB especially now that they charge the seller the buyer's state taxes. They could charge the buyer with his state taxes and then if he was a non-paying bidder or cancelled the transaction GB could square up with the buyer. It only takes one bad experience.

 

Robert

[damifino]

I don't know if this is the case here. But when I place my max bid on an item. It only bumps it up one bid increment. When someone else bids, it tops their bid and kicks them back to bid again until they pass the max bid. I don't recall if my max bid ever shows if I'm out bid. Could this be what he saw?

[Gio]

Not an expert on bidding pn Gunbroker. When you put your max bid no one can see that max bid. They can figure it out only when they outbid your max ..

 

A lot of sellers that are selling a high price gun or part won't let a new bidder bid.

 

Frank

[Robert Henley]

As noted, no one knows your max bid until someone places a higher bid and then you will get an email that you've been outbid. When I'm bidding on an item, I look at the Bid History to see who's bidding (am I bidding against one person or two or whatever the case may be). You cannot see their bid amounts but if you are not the high bidder the high bidder will be at the top of the list and have a check mark beside his hidden bid amount. The Bid History has the username and ratings and the date and time of all bids. For example, here's a link to a 98K rifle:

 

Erma Model 98K 7.92x57mm Blue *EXTREMELY RARE "AX41" CODE STAMP!* - Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com : 921549776

 

GunBroker.com - Bid History for item 921549776

 

If you click on the Bid HIstory you can see the 20 bids placed so far, who placed them (the user names), and user ratings, and the dates and times of the bids.

 

What I was saying earlier is I look at the bids and if I saw someone who had a NR (No Rating) and they were bidding against me and driving up the price I would just stop bidding once the item reached a price that was more than I was willing to pay. If you placed a max bid you wouldn't bid more than you were willing to pay. You can see who you are bidding against and their ratings, so there's no reason to keep bidding if you think there's something fishy going on. And, yes, many sellers include a statement in the item listing that if you do not have a rating to contact them before placing a bid. I suppose if a NR buyer did not do so and bid, the seller would then block them and prevent them from placing another bid. Of course, all Gunbroker users are NR at one time, so that is not necessarily indicative of anything other than they haven't been rated yet.