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Thompson Guns in British & Aussie Service


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The Educational Supply Association made school desks, chairs, etc. A neighbour (now dead) worked for them in a secretarial/administrative capacity in the 1970s. The National Archives indicated that the company's surviving records are deposited at our county records office so I went there to see what they might have on the subject. My spirits fell as I was handed a slim envelope - nothing about the wars years, and very little at all - just one or two brochures from the '20s or '30s and a company director's report to the employees from the 1960s.

They made concertina doors that went all down the side of the TB hospitals so that they could open up the room to fresh air, which was supposed to be good for consumption.

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The Educational Supply Association made school desks, chairs, etc. A neighbour (now dead) worked for them in a secretarial/administrative capacity in the 1970s. The National Archives indicated that the company's surviving records are deposited at our county records office so I went there to see what they might have on the subject. My spirits fell as I was handed a slim envelope - nothing about the wars years, and very little at all - just one or two brochures from the '20s or '30s and a company director's report to the employees from the 1960s.

They made concertina doors that went all down the side of the TB hospitals so that they could open up the room to fresh air, which was supposed to be good for consumption.

James,

Thank you for that confirmation, we can eliminate that link for the stock then.

 

I have also updated my own notes, replacing 'ESA' with Educational Supply Association.

 

Stay safe

Richard

Edited by rpbcps
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The Educational Supply Association made school desks, chairs, etc. A neighbour (now dead) worked for them in a secretarial/administrative capacity in the 1970s. The National Archives indicated that the company's surviving records are deposited at our county records office so I went there to see what they might have on the subject. My spirits fell as I was handed a slim envelope - nothing about the wars years, and very little at all - just one or two brochures from the '20s or '30s and a company director's report to the employees from the 1960s.

They made concertina doors that went all down the side of the TB hospitals so that they could open up the room to fresh air, which was supposed to be good for consumption.

James,

Thank you for that confirmation, we can eliminate that link for the stock then.

 

I have also updated my own notes, replacing 'ESA' with Educational Supply Association.

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

So my M1 Broad Arrow ESA butt stock was likely modified by Educational Supply Association in England?

 

qr1yEV8l.jpg

7r84I3el.jpg

2dUjJEkl.jpg

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Bridgeport28A1

 

The modification to the butt with two wood screws was announced in the British, Army Council notifications, being 1909 from 1942. "Thompson M/C Carbine - modification to butt by inserting two wood screws.".

 

However in the case of your butt I think the modification would most likely have been done in India due to the Indian marking on the butt. Can't be 100% certain though, as the weapon could have been modified in the U.K. before seeing service with Indian forces. The former is the most likely scenario I would think.

 

Regards

 

AlanD

 

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On the subject of the acronym 'ESA' with the Broad Arrow, over the last week or so, I have been trying to research further into the acronym with limited success.

 

The book I always forgot to refer to, which is full of information, is the Ian Skennerton, Small Arms Identification Series volume on the Thompson Sub-machine gun. In that book it says that the letter 'FR' refers to ‘Factory repair India’, but have found no other references to India.

 

Incidentally, the answer may be in another book published by Skennerton, 'The Broad Arrow - British and Empire Factory Production, proof, inspection, armourers, unit & issue markings'. But it is out of print and listed on Abebooks for $573, and on other sites for $1000. Fortunately, I have discovered that the 2nd edition of the book has been printed in Thailand, however, due to the Coronavirus, the stock is still in Thailand. So, sometime in the future when the book becomes available, it may shine further light on the acronym ‘ESA’.

 

Another link lists the 'Indian Broad Arrow', as an 'I' above the arrow.

 

A list ‘MOD Acronyms and Abbreviations’, that I found on line has ESA listed as ‘End Stage Assessment’, but I have been unable to find out what an ‘End stage assessment’ is, so still no further forward on that and I am not sure it would have been stamped on weapon stocks in the past.

 

Finally, note contractor No. 3 below, which may just be a coincidence, and I can't recall where I read this information now, but I made a note of it:

 

"A total of 63,051 Thompson Machine carbine transit chests were produced, by the following contractors:

  1. Nichols & James produced 24,601 (including 48 contract overruns which the Ministry took anyway)
  2. Harris Lebus produced 17,000
  3. ESA produced 16,400
  4. India (Karachi) produced 5000"

Before anyone mentions it, I noted the listed production numbers do not add up to the total given of 63.051, but not my error, that was in the original text!

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

Richard

 

The information on the Thompson wooden chests will have come from the contract ledgers in Kew. I think this info is also in Tom's book.

 

Nicholas & James 750

Nicholas & James 2800

Nicholas & James 10003

Harris Lebus 8000

Educational Supplies Assn Ltd 7400

Harris Lebus 9000

Educational supplies Assn Ltd 9050

Nichol & James 9000

India 5000

 

Total 61,003 - This figure is what is shown in the right hand column of the ledger page, on the left column a figure brought forward of 73,000 is show.

 

The cost of each chest varied being just under a Pound to about one Pound five shillings.

 

The fist order of 750 chests has three dates attached to it, 1st February 1940, 20th April 1940 and 13th May 1940.

 

On a more general note, it will be seen these dates are before the LDV or Home guard came into being, so it is quite erroneous for collectors to refer to them as the Home Guard chest. The HG has them but so did the Army & Navy. As Richard has in his post they are Thompson Machine Carbine transit chests.

 

Regards

 

AlanD

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Thank you Alan,

I'll update my notes with this new information that you have provided, which is very comprehensive.

 

Stay safe

Richard

Edited by rpbcps
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  • 1 year later...

Couple of photos with Indian and British troops armed with Thompsons from Burma in 1945.

 

76th Raj.JPG

Soldiers of the 7th Rajput Regiment in May 1945, part of 26th Indian Division, on the Arakan front in Burma.
Royal Norfolk Regt..JPG

Troops of the Royal Norfolk Regiment, who made up No. 1 Commando, defending Hill 170 at Kangaw, Arakan on 31 January 1945. One officer of the Royal Norfolk Regt., Lieutenant Knowland was killed after fighting off sustained attacks single-handed for 36 hours, for this, he was awarded a posthumous Victoria Cross.

 

My Grandfather, Henry Ernst Hudson, served with the 7th Battalion of the Royal Norfolk Regt. in France, part of the famous 51st (Highland) Infantry Division, in 1940. The 51st Division was stationed with the French on the Maginot Line, thus escaping encirclement, and Dunkirk, but the reprieve was only temporary. The Battalion suffered heavy casualties when the 51st Division was surrounded and forced to surrender on 12th June. Just 31 members of the Battalion managed to escape to Britain, the rest were either killed or captured. My grandfather was captured and spent the rest of the war as a POW. Immediately prior to his capture, his personal weapon was a Boys Anti-tank rifle, and he did not have many good words to say about that weapon.

 

Pte H E Hudson 4534786 2.jpg

Engraved stone from the veterans walk in Sunderland UK

National Veteran's Walk – Honouring our veterans (nationalveteranswalk.co.uk)

 

Stay safe

Richard

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  • 1 month later...

I found another photo of Australian troops, I think, in a trench in Tobruk in 1942, one armed with a TSMG with a L drum fitted.

 

Tobruk 1942.jpg

 

and another from Tobruk, with the first soldier in the nearest column carrying a TSMG

 

Tobruk 1942 a.jpg

 

and finally one from Tunisia in 1943, of a PIAT team, with a TSMG beside the soldier on the right.

 

PIAT Gun Tunisia 19.2.43.jpg

 

Stay safe

 

Richard

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  • 5 months later...

A few more photos to add to the post:

 

Sgt Dick Bingley while serving with 11 SAS Battalion C1941:

Sgt Dick Bingley while serving with 11 SAS BATTALION C1941.JPG

11 SAS Battalion was formed from No 2 Commando on 21 November 1940.

 

British Paras in Athens 1944:

Maj Barnes & Lt Watson consult maps before attack Athens. 23 December 1944.JPG

 

6th (Royal Welsh) Battalion Para Regt. Athens C1944.JPG

 

Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders training in Malaya Nov. 1941, wearing pre war Pith helmets:

Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders  training in Malaya Nov. 1941.JPG

 

Italy May 1944:

Cpl R.F. Johnson & Sgt E. Newbury at Carocetto, Italy 28th May 1944.JPG

 

Sgt Major in Syria, July 1941

Sgt Major Syria July 1941.jpg

 

Australian Commando in Pacific theatre, date unknown:

Australian Commando.JPG

 

Indian troops with a TSMG:

Indian Troops with TSMG.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by rpbcps
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  • 7 months later...

A few more photos I have come across of British Paratroopers with TSMGs.

Paratroopers in Trg Oct 1941.jpg

 

 

Para training March 42.jpg

 

And one shows US soldiers showing a British Bobby a TSMG, from life magazine.

British Bobby and US troops with TSMG.jpg

Cocked and magazine in place?

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