ISO: NOS 1928 Savage Disconnector and/or Trigger

[sc269]

Hey guys, I thought I would canvas the forum to see if anybody may have the parts I need. I'm looking for a Savage marked disconnector and trigger. I already have spares that are Stevens with the block "S", so that maker won't help me. Phil Askew does have the disconnector but not the trigger. His picture of the disconnector has brought to attention that at least 2 different styles were made by Savage. Looks like less machining required. It would have absolutely no affect on function. If I have a choice I would prefer the type I have, of course. Please send me pics in a message if you can help me or answer right here if like. Please see attached pics.

[TSMGguy]

Both maker's parts are perfectly correct, right?

[sc269]

They are. I would just prefer the Savage marked one.

[reconbob]

That disconnector in the second picture looks badly worn and/or damaged.

The corners you are pointing to with the red arrow should be very sharp and in

the photo it looks rounded.

 

It is possible that if you change these parts you will have to fit them. When

the mag is empty, there is a tab on the mag follower that pushes on and lifts up

the front of the trip. The back of the trip pushes on the disconnector and is supposed

to pivot the leg of the disconnector out from under the sear lever so that when you

pull the trigger on an empty mag the sear lever and sear do not move.

 

BUT, if the leg of the disconnector that engages the sear lever and/or the front

of the sear lever are not just right, the whole thing will not work and the bolt will

shut on an empty mag.

 

I am not trying to rain on your parade, just cautioning you that if the new parts

require fitting/tuning that can be a real pain in the neck. The trip, disconnector, and

sear lever all work together.

 

I have quite a few MINT disconnectors and out of curiousity I took a look at about

20 of them and they have either the Stevens square S or the Auto-Ordnance O and C

inside the A. Since Stevens was a Savage contractor I don't know how you are helping

the cause by holding out for a Savage part, but of course, that is up to you.

 

Bob

[bug]

Is the disconnector in the second pic marked with the rounded S? Also, what is the SN range of the gun that has the "bright" S marked part in pic 1?

[TSMGguy]

.... Also, what is the SN range of the gun that has the "bright" S marked part in pic 1?

 

Of course, that's the rub. No one knows. There probably was no firm serial number cut off for switching from parts from one subcontractor to the other if this happened at all. Parts were parts. If you've found NOS originals, count your self among the lucky, regardless of how they're marked.

 

Hard and fast rules required that there be no hand fitting involved in the assembly of firearms produced under the auspices of the US Arny's Ordnance department. Parts that didn't fit during assembly could be cause to reject entire parts production runs and shut down assembly lines. It happened. This policy was unique in the world, but it caused much consternation on the part of contractors who didn't see anything wrong in taking a swipe or two at a part with a file for fitting. Otherwise, original parts may require fitting today to work correctly, probably because tolerances have drifted in the last 80 years.

 

I've never seen a NOS connector with a bright surface. Looks like that one's been ground.

Edited July 1, 2022 by TSMGguy

[TD.]

The Savage Commercial Thompson the Savage marked disconnector in question was removed from is pictured on page 56 of, A Thompson Compendium. It is beautiful example of this Thompson variation. I did not picture the internals of this particular Savage, instead concentrating on the matching butt stock and index line on the barrel collar. I tried to show something important and germane to the early Savage guns with each early Savage Commercial pictured in, A Thompson Compendium. The bright or in the white Savage marked disconnector is original to this Thompson. Prior to publication of A Thompson Compendium, bright parts in Savage frames were thought to be Colt era parts. Pages 59 through 62 dispels this long-standing theory and features a bright or in the white Sear Lever and Disconnector - both Savage marked. So yes, bright Savage internal parts are original to the early Savage guns.

 

The early Savage guns were not manufactured under the auspicious of the U.S. Army Ordnance Department. These were commercially produced guns by Savage Arms for Auto-Ordnance Corporation (AOC) under the oversight and inspection of AOC Chief Engineer George E. Goll. I know everyone has seen the circular GEG markings on Savage Arms Thompson guns. I would not be surprised with a little hand-fitting on the very earliest guns (15,000 serial number range - see chapter 3) but none exist in original condition for analysis. The Savage Thompson in question is in the 21,000 serial number range.

 

It is my premise that all or nearly all of the 10,000 guns manufactured under the first Auto-Ordnance and Savage Arms contract were manufactured with all Savage Arms marked parts. No subcontractors were involved except for the Cutts compensator. I base this premise on the fact that Savage Arms or Auto-Ordnance could not predict in December 1939 if additional contracts would be signed. Remember, there were still Colt manufactured guns in inventory when the first contract was signed, and the British orders were initially slow and small in number. It seems unreasonable (to me) that Savage Arms would bring in subcontractors for a 10,000 gun order. Of course, subcontractors and the U.S. Army Ordnance Department were definitely involved as production continued, orders piled up and the Lend-Lease Act was signed into law.

 

So, does anyone have a spare Savage disconnector that matches the one found in this Savage Commercial?

 

All good stuff!!!

[bug]

 

.... Also, what is the SN range of the gun that has the "bright" S marked part in pic 1?

 

Of course, that's the rub. No one knows. There probably was no firm serial number cut off for switching from parts from one subcontractor to the other if this happened at all. Parts were parts. If you've found NOS originals, count your self among the lucky, regardless of how they're marked.

 

Hard and fast rules required that there be no hand fitting involved in the assembly of firearms produced under the auspices of the US Arny's Ordnance department. Parts that didn't fit during assembly could be cause to reject entire parts production runs and shut down assembly lines. It happened. This policy was unique in the world, but it caused much consternation on the part of contractors who didn't see anything wrong in taking a swipe or two at a part with a file for fitting. Otherwise, original parts may require fitting today to work correctly, probably because tolerances have drifted in the last 80 years.

 

I've never seen a NOS connector with a bright surface. Looks like that one's been ground.

 

I was asking the OP the SN range of HIS gun, assuming that the bright disco came from it. I may have misunderstood him.

[reconbob]

Wow. I never heard of the rule that parts had to have no fitting required. I have found

no evidence of this having manufactured quite a few (hundreds) of blank guns (which use

a standard Thompson trigger frame assy. and full auto guns, both before and after the 86

ban. Triggers, sears, mag catches, and every part in the upper barreled receiver half - bolts,

extractors, barrels, etc. I have found to be pretty much all the same and interchangeable.

 

Sear levers, trips, and disconnectors I have found to sometimes require fitting for the semi

auto and empty mag hold open feature to work. Most of the parts appear to be new, or as new,

but here we are 75+ years later and all bets are off.

 

Many years ago I put up a picture of a M1928A1 actuator where the knob was properly centered,

but the shank of the knob was so far off center, it would not allow the bolt to close all the way

and the gun would not fire. This actuator was in one of the "Russian" kits, and even though any

gun that had this part in it would not fire, the actuator made it through the system.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

[TSMGguy]

 

 

.... Also, what is the SN range of the gun that has the "bright" S marked part in pic 1?

 

Of course, that's the rub. No one knows. There probably was no firm serial number cut off for switching from parts from one subcontractor to the other if this happened at all. Parts were parts. If you've found NOS originals, count your self among the lucky, regardless of how they're marked.

 

Hard and fast rules required that there be no hand fitting involved in the assembly of firearms produced under the auspices of the US Arny's Ordnance department. Parts that didn't fit during assembly could be cause to reject entire parts production runs and shut down assembly lines. It happened. This policy was unique in the world, but it caused much consternation on the part of contractors who didn't see anything wrong in taking a swipe or two at a part with a file for fitting. Otherwise, original parts may require fitting today to work correctly, probably because tolerances have drifted in the last 80 years.

 

I've never seen a NOS connector with a bright surface. Looks like that one's been ground.

 

I was asking the OP the SN range of HIS gun, assuming that the bright disco came from it. I may have misunderstood him.

 

Me too. I was assuming a USGI M1928A1 or M1.

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by TSMGguy

[sc269]

TSMGguy, Reconbob, and Bug, I think TD answered to everything already. I had already spoke with him and Phil Askew about the parts for my Early Savage. S-21288, I think, from memory. I have a spare lower with Stevens internals. And I agree with Reconbob about fitting some of these parts. I worked on my spare lower for days. The problem I'm have developed over time. The gun worked flawlessly with close to a 1000 rounds. Then started acting up. A good cleaning stopped it from ripping off while in single fire. But now the trigger gets stuck and won't return. Oddly enough, I can change either the disconnector or the trigger and solve the issue. But together, the additive wear of both causes the problem. This can be proved also by using the combinations in the spare receiver. You really have to see it, but the disconnector has excessive play between it and the trigger. Causing a slight binding like friction. I hope I got that right. It has been over an hour, so my memory is suspect. In any case, I was hoping to find the parts here. I do appreciate you guys sharing the knowledge, there's definitely a wealth of information here.