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Russian SMG prices


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#1 StrangeRanger

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 06:52 PM

https://centurionauc...cpage=4&ipp=100

 

I know they're rare and therefore expensive but look at the condition of this one.

The original finish is virtually gone.  If a little patina on a war relic is a good thing then this may be too much of a good thing

Upper and lower serial numbers do not match

Not listed as a C&R but no evidence of being a reweld, possibly C&R eligible

The stock which is missing a S/N is badly cracked around the upper tang.  Shoot it and sooner or later you'll be eating splinters

Based on exterior finish the barrel is probably a replacement, possibly aftermarket rather than an original chrome-lined one

The safety and its related hardware are missing

The rear sight is crooked.  Could be famous Russian wartime quality control or it could be a trashed rivet hole and a loose sight.

There is something definitely, seriously wrong with the takedown catch likely needing the attention of a 'smith.

 

For this someone paid $16.5K (13, 750 + 20%) which was actually a bit less than I anticipated.  I dropped out of the bidding on this one around $12K.  I just saw too many issues.

 

In the same auction a much nicer PPS43 went for a hefty $24.5 K.

https://centurionauc...cpage=4&ipp=100

 

Maybe it's just me but these prices seem totally out of hand.


Edited by StrangeRanger, 19 January 2020 - 07:01 PM.

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#2 PTRS-14.5

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:19 PM

It would appear the PPS43 was dewated at sometime as the left side full view shows a heat effected area on the upper near where the chamber would be externally. I'd say it was no deal at the sale price...

 

Centurion does a very poor with their descriptions in my opinion.  In the past I had worked this to my advantage, but that's clearly a thing of the past. The Owen SMG Pre Sample was at pass at $4,800 maybe not a bad deal... I'm sure someone will chase it. At 4K it could be an OK buy.  I didn't see anything I couldn't do without.

 

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Edited by PTRS-14.5, 19 January 2020 - 10:21 PM.

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#3 BillyDixon

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:10 AM

the pictures  show a pps-43,  some how your description sounds like a ppsh-41, you know stock split around upper tang etc, please explane for me, just sayn


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#4 BillyDixon

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:12 AM

 my bad , i understand now, just sayn


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#5 APEXgunparts

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 05:00 PM

I too was trying to understand that bid on the PPS-43.
It made me wonder if it was even valid.
 

The photo's of the PPsH-41 sure said more than the write up did.
It was a 1944 dated gun with what looked like a lot of hard use, I wondered if it came back to the USA from Korea in the 1950's?

Richard


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#6 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:31 PM

in the last couple years there's been a significant uptick in prices on Russian guns.  If you understand auction pricing, you may be crazier than the bidders themselves?  LOL   I've quizzed several auction folks and they can't comprehend any of it either, but I do find it fascinating.  I watched Barret-Jackson the other night and that's a LOT more dysfunctional than gun auctions, but they offer on site financing and effectively margin buying.  I'll be horrified if gun auctions get to that point.


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#7 MG08

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 10:38 PM

I did not even try to bid on the ppsh 41  As noted, it had a lot of issues and price wise was not that good a deal.  I got the DEWAT '41 out of last years Centurion auction for about $15k out the door.  Easy REWAT and the condition was typical for a 43 C&R Russian SMG.  I smiled all the way to the vault.   The PPS43 was high on my list, but some one had a prebid in on it ( I asked my phone talker as we watched) and went to the $24.5K right off - no one else bid.

 

But yes, the prices on stuff defies a theory of "what the hell" ? There were some good deals on presamples, and  I was a little late on the draw on the OWEN, they withdrew it before I really saw what was going on.  At $4500, it would have been a good deal.  I paid $6k for a type 99 LMG DEWAT a few years ago at RIA. It came with two original mags. Fairly easy Rewat, and in really nice shape.  What looked like a sister to it sold in the next RIA auction for something like 12k with no mag.  The Type 99 in the Centurion auction was missing a lot of internals ( as confirmed by my phone guy) and would cost a LOT to make operable.  Guess you really have to watch and be aware.


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#8 maxfaxdude

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 04:39 PM

I did not even try to bid on the ppsh 41  As noted, it had a lot of issues and price wise was not that good a deal.  I got the DEWAT '41 out of last years Centurion auction for about $15k out the door.  Easy REWAT and the condition was typical for a 43 C&R Russian SMG.  I smiled all the way to the vault.   The PPS43 was high on my list, but some one had a prebid in on it ( I asked my phone talker as we watched) and went to the $24.5K right off - no one else bid.

 

But yes, the prices on stuff defies a theory of "what the hell" ? There were some good deals on presamples, and  I was a little late on the draw on the OWEN, they withdrew it before I really saw what was going on.  At $4500, it would have been a good deal.  I paid $6k for a type 99 LMG DEWAT a few years ago at RIA. It came with two original mags. Fairly easy Rewat, and in really nice shape.  What looked like a sister to it sold in the next RIA auction for something like 12k with no mag.  The Type 99 in the Centurion auction was missing a lot of internals ( as confirmed by my phone guy) and would cost a LOT to make operable.  Guess you really have to watch and be aware.

 

I had my eye on that PPS43 as well, I pre-bid it all the way up to $24K but was outbid automatically by the high bidder.  Add to that a 20% buyer's premium, shipping and insurance and you're probably just under $30K which is paying too much IMO.  


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