SBR Thompson Value

[MrBill]

I have a Thompson M1 SBR that was built on a Parts Kit with a Philadelphia Ordinance receiver. It is registered as a SBR. It fires semi auto (built from ATF approved plans available on the weapons guild site). I see IMA is currently selling dummy Thompson display guns for $2800. Any ideas what my transferable SBR should sell for in todays market?

[Countryboy77]

IMA gets high prices be ause many get used as props so no need for an armorer.Because its an sbr its more difficult to sell.Is it a home build or done by a reputable builder with their info on it? Lot of variables like condition, original barrel or aftermarket replacement as lots of the kiys that came in barrels were destroyed.Also the ima has a welded original receiver which appeals to collectors of a static display.Which semi conversion striker fire,ar15 fire control ect.. lots of variabled

[TennesseeTaylor95]

Countryboy77 brings up many good points about the importance of details of the build (which semi auto method you went with; SDK1968's or Weasel's AR-15 FCG hammer fired style of build or more like Joe H's or Jim44's striker style build), who did the milling work on the build, what original parts were used that were then modified for the build and it's overall condition as those would definitely play a role in the valuation of the SBR. Pictures of the gun in question would be beneficial.

Also, if you do try and sell it as an SBR but don't get any interest, you might consider removing the 10.5" barrel from the gun and then take the gun off the NFRTR as a SBR, making it a regular title 1 firearm again. Then you could either put on a 16" barrel to sell it as a complete rifle or just leave it as a barrel-less rifle for the purchaser to figure out what he or she wants to do if they don't want to register it as a SBR (16" barrel or blank firing only non barrel, etc.). Regardless, I don't know if you will make any money off the sale if that is your main interest as most builds are a labor of love. Just my 2 cents on the matter and I hope you post pictures of the M1 so we can see how it looks. Who knows, you might just find a potential buyer here.

[Countryboy77]

Yes it would be nice to see pictures of it.Details would make a big difference.Also keep in mind when semi auto Mg42s were being built a lot of people on mg42.us said they wouod never be collectable and now Ww2 semis go for $7-10,000 and even yugos m53 going for 5-6 thousand.Once again depends on how many original parts,type of conversion and who built it.You may want to hang on to it if ypur hoping to make $$.However being an M1 you may be disappointed with some answers you get.Dont sweat it as look what happened to yhe 42s after 10 years when all the so called experts said Never a collectable and leave the parts kit a kit

[Got Uzi]

The other thing you have to look at and consider is that you can buy brand new Thompson SBR's that have a factory warranty behind them for $2,500-$3,000 depending on the model and options. That being said your home built SBR semi could be looked down on based on that. Now factor in the cost of what complete original parts kits are bringing and factor that too. Personally I think you are between a rock and a hard place with this one.

[MrBill]

I took some pictures which are in my windows 10 one drive but i am not smart enough to download them to this reply to topic window? Okay Tennessee Taylor ,we used SDK 1968 plans because a M1 is much simpler than weasels AR 15 hammer for a 21/28. I was wrong about IMA's price on dummy M1's They are actually $3495 (Hollywood buys them?) The final build and tune was done by deerslayer (a member of these boards) Got Uzi could be right about cost to build versus 16 inch Kahr. Hell the receiver alone is $600 and some M1 parts kit are going for over $3000 so yeah If someone wants to build a "real" Thompson you could easily spend over $4000 So list it on Gunbroker with a reserve and see what happens? I may bring it down to Big Sandy for the late October shoot if i do not draw my Elk tag Thanks for the opinions

[TennesseeTaylor95]

I have had success uploading photos from my phone (and laptop too) by using the full/desktop version of the forum instead of the simplified, mobile version of the website. Once you are on the "full version", you should see a gray box to the right of the "Post" button titled "More reply options" in the reply area of the web page. Once you click on that button, the page will reload and it will show you an different version of the reply box with ability to choose and attach files to your reply. Then it is as simple as accessing the files from your device, picking the ones you want to upload one at a time and attaching them one at a time until you have all of the photos that you want to upload. Hopefully that wasn't too long winded to get the process across.

 

As for the gun and the parts used to make it, I have seen parts kits vary in price from sub $1000 to the $3000+ that you mention, so it is a bit harder to figure out a good value of a parts kit that has been modified for a semi build. For example, a M1A1 parts kit with demilled receiver pieces, demilled barrel & bolt, with a 1928 bolt thrown in sold for just over $900 last night on GB, yet last fall I saw a stripped, reparkerized M1A1 trigger frame at a local military collector's show sell for $800 or $900 by itself. Plus, I personally feel that some potential buyers will give you a hard time not wanting to pay the full value of the "parts kit value" portion of your price because your gun wouldn't have unmodified, original parts. This is all assuming that you did the quite extensive modifications to the trigger frame and other parts shown in SDK1968's build plans to ensure that the gun couldn't be readily modified back to a FA gun with unmodified FA parts. Got Uzi makes a good point that some might not want to take the risk on this "home built SBR" (I personally have no problem with home built guns, but some do due to the worry about a potential for legal issues or something else) when that person could get one of the Kahr semi auto M1 SBRs for less money, it is 100% ATF approved design, and it will have some sort of customer service if something ever goes wrong with it. In the end, I feel that the pool of potential buyers in the US for a semi auto, hammer fired, M1 thompson SBR utilizing a P.O. 80% that was finished out by you and tuned by deerslayer as well as containing original parts that were modified for the build is rather small, and the ones willing to pay much more than the cost of a Kahr M1 SBR for this build is even smaller. I don't intend to sound pessimistic with my opinion of the situation, so I hope it won't be taken that way.

Putting it up on GB with a reserve might work out and it might be worth a shot to see if you get any interest in it, but I'd also consider putting up an ad on here (with Dalbert's approval of course) to see if there is anyone here that is interested in it.

Edited August 20, 2022 by TennesseeTaylor95

[Got Uzi]

The one thing you also have to consider with parts kits is all the new 07/02's who are buying up all this stuff to build post samples as they want cheap toys....keep that in mind too

[Countryboy77]

Keep in mind a Philidelphia ordnance receiver while a work of art and probly better than a kahr once finished is a gun half new and half old.I saw a semi auto 1928 made out of a single sawcut receiver modified to semi only sold for $4500 but you coukdnt see the weld all markings were in tact,british proofs and us inspector markings.Done as a pisol so it wasnt an sbr.It was very nice and from outside you couldnt tell it from a mg.The builders info was on the bottom where a stock would be some shop put of Florida.Bob bowman 6 months ago was selling m1 kits for 900 sans barrel.that plus 600 for a philly ord receiver 200 for a barrel puts at about 1700 withput work.Building semis is a labor of love to make guns that are rare you cont easily buy.You probly wont get what you have invested because people arent going to see it like you do.Most of the people who know what it is and the amount of work put in it are on here or weapons guild.Advertise it with good photos inside and out and good description original barrel or aftermarket ect.What work was done and by who with a video of it shooting and keep your fingers crossed.Probly sell better and appeal to more customers as a pistol.Remove the stock and screw a sling swivel to one mount location and a screw in the other and allow the next guy to decide if they want an sbr.Much broader market that way as a title 1 gun.Got Uzi is 100% right lot of new sot shelling out money for kits to build posties.

[MrBill]

Well i was able to disconnect the "cloud" from my one drive (windows 10) and then ,when the camera is plugged in, it directly loads photo's to a accessible file........ I have no skills or patience for this stuff

[Countryboy77]

Take the stock off get rid of sbr status will open up and appealto more customers as a pistol. Stock dpnt match anyway.She is a good looking gun somone might just give her a home. Edited August 11, 2022 by Countryboy77

[TennesseeTaylor95]

Take the stock off get rid of sbr status will open up and appealto more customers as a pistol. Stock dpnt match anyway.She is a good looking gun somone might just give her a home.

I agree. Take the stock off, maybe find a way to attach a single point sling mount where the stock screw holes are or attach it to the recoil boss somehow, remove the gun from the NFRTR, and sell it as a pistol. That makes much more sense than my suggestion of removing it from the NFRTR and selling it as a barrel-less carbine.

 

Boy, it sure looks nice and I'd buy it if I could afford it! Haha Do you have any photos of the internals to show off deerslayer's machining work? Also, do you remember what he charged to do the milling work and (I assume) the assembly of the gun to make it function? I wonder if he has done, or would be willing to do, this kind of work with a M1928A1 P.O. 80% receiver.

[MrBill]

I did the machining on the receiver (Bridgeport mill) and I had a local smith help me somewhat and it ran worse than a Khar I sent it for a "tune up" to Deerslayer a while ago and he is pretty darn good. You need to get prices from him. My $185000 house i bought in 2001 is listed for $1.3 so who knows with inflation

[TennesseeTaylor95]

Ah, that makes more sense now. I incorrectly inferred from the previous posts that you had Dan do all of the machining on the receiver, bolt, etc. turning it from a pile of parts into a gun, but now I understand that you did all of that initial work.

 

I'd love to own something like a good, used Bridgeport Series 1 knee mill one day, but I currently don't have the money or space for one. Are you running a phase converter for it to work on regular single phase power, or is your mill at a location that has access to 3 phase power? I have muddled over the past few years about getting a small hobbyist bench style mini mill like the Precision Matthews PM-25MV with a 3 axis DRO to get my toes wet again in machining, but the cost of that setup could be getting near the cost of a used Bridgeport mill.

[Varminter]

I may be wrong on this.

 

If an out of state buyer wants this, and it's on a Form 4 in your state, isn't that a couple "6 month hops(Time and stamps)" to get actual possession?

I know 6 months can be 10 months.

[Countryboy77]

You know tennesee taylor even if you dont have 3 phase at your house you xould buy a phase converter which is banks of capacitors done in a way to create the 3rd leg to get 3 phase power in your garage for a mill

[TennesseeTaylor95]

You know tennesee taylor even if you dont have 3 phase at your house you xould buy a phase converter which is banks of capacitors done in a way to create the 3rd leg to get 3 phase power in your garage for a mill

Correct, that's why I was wondering if he was using a single phase power source with a phase converter, or if he is using three phase power either through the line service going to his building or through the use of a genset as a form of "on-demand" 3 phase power only when he needs it.

 

For me right now, the main advantage of going with a single phase powered mini mill, aside from the ability to simply "plug in and go", is that they are lighter and theoretically easier to move around in the future than a 2,000+ lb. Bridgeport. If I was in my forever home where I could set up shop in the garage for the foreseeable future, I'd be more inclined to go with a Bridgeport and run it off a phase converter.

[MrBill]

Okay Varminter This gun is not on a form4 It is registered with ATF as a SBR (short barreled rifle) but it still costs $200 for the paperwork and i believe it is transferable ..Tennessee Taylor The milling machine I used is a three phase (I think 270 volts?) that was acquired from one of the defunct sawmills years ago (i borrowed time and expertise on it) I do not believe it is legal to have a gunsmith do the machine work on a 80% receiver for a SBR. They certainly can repair one after the build is complete ..Now the butt stock, your suggestions to get a matching stock is good. The butt stock i got from Omega when i bought the kit years ago had a 28 stock instead of the screw on M1 stock. If any one out there has a M1 stock to trade or for sale with butt plate please PM me. Is it a possible to convert a 28 butt stock to fit a M1 lower?

[Ivan]

Ok.

If it is a Transferable SBR then it is on a Form 4 unless at a SOT FFL then it could be sent via Form 3.

You might want to check the paperwork if you are trying to sell this.

[anticus]

If it’s a homebuild it would be on a Form 1, then Form4 to transfer ?

[Mad Machinist]

You know tennesee taylor even if you dont have 3 phase at your house you xould buy a phase converter which is banks of capacitors done in a way to create the 3rd leg to get 3 phase power in your garage for a mill

 

Phase convertors are a pain in the ass,,,,,,,for $99.00 you can buy a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) on Amazon that will easily run a Bridgeport, or ANY knee mill for that matteror small lathe......helping a friend now getting his knife shop set up with VFD's. Fortunatel I have 3 phase at the shop......can't imagine what my power bill would be with single.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Mad Machinist

[Varminter]

Ok.

If it is a Transferable SBR then it is on a Form 4 unless at a SOT FFL then it could be sent via Form 3.

You might want to check the paperwork if you are trying to sell this.

 

According to SilencerCentral:

 

We mentioned above that you can sell your suppressor to someone who lives in another state, but the process is more involved. Unlike a same-state sale, you do not keep the suppressor in your possession while the paperwork is processed. Instead, you will need to transfer the silencer to your local (in state) FFL/SOT with a Form 4 and pay for the $200 tax stamp. (Yep, you get to pay for the privilege of selling something you already paid to own in the first place.) The FFL/SOT would then transfer the silencer to an FFL/SOT in the buyer’s state using a Form 3 (no fee here, because … reasons or something). Then, the buyer’s FFL/SOT transfers the silencer to them on a Form 4 with a $200 tax stamp.

 

I imagine an SBR or machinegun would follow the same expensive time consuming process.

[Bayrain]

With a M1 like that it's kind of up in the air in terms of price.

Especially when a new production Kahr SBR M1 is around 1800 to 2300. It's really nice it's built from a Philly Ordnance reciever and a complete semi conversion is impressive, but does the build, fit and function justify a price over a NIB M1 or rivals it?

 

Very one of a kind, I still want to get a Philly 80% for an M1 but I can't find anyone who would mill it out for a semi.

 

I'd throw it up for auction somewhere with the reserve being set at the cost of what you put into it and see if it goes anywhere.

 

But unsbr-ing would be ideal for re sale value, so just extending out the barrel or replacing the lower reciever would be best.

 

That's all I got