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The M1 Carbine: A Love/Hate Relationship


M1 Carbine: A Love It or Hate It Weapon  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you love the M1 Carbine, or hate the M1 Carbine?

    • Love it!
      25
    • Hate it!
      1


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Over the years, I've encountered strong opinions among firearm owners about the M1 Carbine. I think it's safe to say most folks like the weapon, but there are definitely those who don't like it at all, and even hate it. One person in particular, a Marine officer whom I used to work for, stated that they had an M1 Carbine once in Vietnam, and hated it so much that they ended up throwing it in a river. On the other hand, an M1 Carbine was the first rifle I ever bought, so I've always loved them.

 

So, I thought I'd put this poll up, just to see what the percentage is of each opinion. Do you love it, or hate it?

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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Dave,

When I was knee high to a grasshopper my father took me to a sportsman show in Cleveland. The Army or Marines had a weapons display. 1911,-carbine ,-rifle,- BAR,- 1919a4 etc.

The carbine was the only long gun I was strong enough to hold. I told my father I wanted one of those guns. It took me until I was 16 to get one. I still have it.

My father was visiting a truck hauler and junk collector one day. Looking around the barn, my father spotted a carbine barreled action. No bolt and no wood. It had a very light coat of rust. The guy gave it to my father and my father gave it to me. Inland Div #104,108. I bought a complete bolt from Numrich for $2.00 and a set of wood from another source for $6.00. Parker Rust Proof in Cleveland parkerized it for less than $20.00.

It looks nice and is one of the most accurate carbines I own. Shot my first woodchuck with it at about 100 yds.

The carbine was Audie Murphys go to gun in WW2. On more than one occasion , when a German sniper killed one of his men , with a scoped Mauser, Audie would stalk and kill the sniper with the little carbine.

LT. John George considered it the ace weapon of WW2.

One in Europe and one in the pacific. Why bother listening to lessor soldiers.

Col. Mike Peck (Ret), who may be a member of the carbine club, wrote a nice article in the SOF magazine.

I'll mail a copy to you.

Jim C

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I own a Winchester and a Natl. Postal Meter and have found both to be accurate and reliable. These, to me, are not troublesome guns and ideally suited to the role for which they were intiially developed. The M 2, on the other hand, can be a totally different story.

Jim

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I have 14 of these little babies. Realized a few years ago I was never taking them out because I had a hard time hitting anything. I spent a few months shooting them and sighting them all in and correcting any problems. While a few would do 3 inches or better at 100 , most would do 4 , and a couple grouped poorly , one over a foot at 100.

A good cleaning and restocking brought the big grouper into the 4-5 inch range . Even though the guns grouped good for the most part , I would have had a hard time keeping all the shots on a refrigerator box at 100 yds. High , low , left , right , you name it. They will all now hit a 6-inch gong at 100yds with only a rare miss , usually tracable to me.

My M2 was a form 1 gun approved just before the '86 cutoff . I could not get it to function in FA . Parts were rarer back then. Replaced everything but the disconnector more than once. Finally was able to locate another , and yep , that was the problem.

I've had a lot of fun with these , including shooting tracers with them. No , not what you think . I'd fire a tracer off , then follow it with a " hotter loaded handloaded " ball round right after , and hit the tracer in the tail with the ball , blowing it apart. :hail: Can you figure out how I did it ? I'll tell you in a few days if noone guesses.

Chris

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Have used these for busting jackrabbits and general fun shooting since I was a kid, shooting nothing but original ball ammo all of these years. I well remember "graduating" from my Ruger 10-22 to the carbine at the age of 14. I had my rabbit hunting friends pretty seriously outgunned!

 

To this day, only two weapons are kept loaded in the bedroom closet; my old (2-43) Inland M-1 carbine, and a Ithaca Model 37 DSPS. I trust them both.

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So far only "love it" votes. Started with a post WWII carbine that I picked up cheap then fell into a great deal on a Winchester. Sold off the post war gun, but have since added a Saginaw (Saginaw), Saginaw (Grand Rapids) and, naturally, an IBM (Auto Ordnance contract).

 

- Ron

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So far only "love it" votes. Started with a post WWII carbine that I picked up cheap then fell into a great deal on a Winchester. Sold off the post war gun, but have since added a Saginaw (Saginaw), Saginaw (Grand Rapids) and, naturally, an IBM (Auto Ordnance contract).

 

- Ron

 

I suppose posting a poll like this on a Carbine board should lead to slightly biased results...

 

I'd like my next Carbine to be an IBM - Auto Ordnance contract example.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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I at one time owned seven M1.30 Cal Carbines including a A.O. marked I.B.M, I have since sold them all including all of the accessories and carbine related items I owned and haven't looked back. Last one I had I trade for a IHC M1 rifle stock and cash.

 

I voted no since there was no middle choice. Had there been a neutral choice I would have gone with neutral.

 

Ross

Edited by Bridgeport28A1
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Well , our opinions may be slanted a bit. I mean , when's been the last time we've stumbled out of a landing craft at Normandy or climed over the side of an alligator at Peleliu or put up with the rain in Italy or lived in a foxhole in the snow at Bastogne ?

Also , we know more about the carbine than many of the users of them . We know it is not a rifle and we don't expect it to do a rifle's job . We also have access to soft point and hollow point ammuntion that they didn't have .

Still , for plinking , target shooting , small game , home defense , police work , etc. , our opinions do have merit.

Chris

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So far only "love it" votes. Started with a post WWII carbine that I picked up cheap then fell into a great deal on a Winchester. Sold off the post war gun, but have since added a Saginaw (Saginaw), Saginaw (Grand Rapids) and, naturally, an IBM (Auto Ordnance contract).

 

- Ron

 

I suppose posting a poll like this on a Carbine board should lead to slightly biased results...

 

I'd like my next Carbine to be an IBM - Auto Ordnance contract example.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

This one was dumb luck, I went to the CMP when they had carbines and convinced myself I did not need another.....unless there happened to be an AO contract in the rack of IBMs. There were three to choose from. Hindsight, I wish I would have bought them all since there are no carbines laying around the CMP for now. None are collector grade guns, but they are are special to me. Somehow I can appreciate the fine workmanship of a Swiss or German gun, but also love the rugged clunkiness of WWII US arms.

 

- Ron

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This one was dumb luck, I went to the CMP when they had carbines and convinced myself I did not need another.....unless there happened to be an AO contract in the rack of IBMs. There were three to choose from. Hindsight, I wish I would have bought them all since there are no carbines laying around the CMP for now. None are collector grade guns, but they are are special to me. Somehow I can appreciate the fine workmanship of a Swiss or German gun, but also love the rugged clunkiness of WWII US arms.

 

- Ron

 

Ron,

 

Cool, I wish I had done the same...

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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Reading 1st person accounts of WWII I have seen many references to the Carbine. Some loved it some hated it or just had no use for it. Two of the strongest against was a 1st Ranger Bat. Officer in Sicily who after coming back from a night patrol took his carbine and broke it over a tree and picked himself out a Thompson, never said why. The other was a 82nd AB trooper in Normandy who stated "The best thing to do with a carbine is to place it muzzle down and hammer it into the ground til the butt-plate is flush."

 

The Carbine was my second military rifle, after a $15.00 8MM Mauser, it soon started jamming with the op rod coming out of the receiver track. I found a crack in the upper part of the track and realized that my pretty little carbine was a "re-wat" It had been braised over the receiver and bolt and the braising had been chipped off but the heat had ruined the temper of the metal. I took it back to the Army/Navy Surplus store and swapped out for another one. I've still got that one in the gun room.

Edited by Hawkeye_Joe
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One of the nice things about WW2 is, once you got to the front, if you didn't like your issue firearm, you could switch for one you had more confidence in.

Now-a-days if you don't like the M4 carbine and Beretta pistol you have a problem.

Jim C

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  • 4 weeks later...

You should have different catagories for answers - is the carbine to be used for serious work or for plinking. I would have said hate for serious and love for plinking. So I didn't answer your poll.

I have 5 Carbines - 2 Win, 1 early & 1 late. 2 Inlands, ones an M1A1 and a Nat'l Postal Meter.

I find the carbine a fun shooter for plinking.

Having used one once for serious work and not been at all happy with the result I would only take an M1 Carbine into a fight if there was no other long gun available!!! I would then dump it as soon as I picked up a real weapon!

I had 3 cousings in WW 2 - 2 marine & 1 Army. The Marine that went to the Pacific (the other managed to go to Europe) was part of a platoon size patrol that got cut off and pinned down by the japs. When a relief force finaly broke thru to them my cousin was one of a half dozen not dead or wounded. He said he had a jap charge his foxhole and he shot him 12 or 14 times, but he still kept coming. Said the jap was dead when he fell in the hole with him. He said he never touched a carbine again the rest of the war. Guess my dislike runs in the family.

Sarge

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Why would the carbine be so completely satisfactory for some soldiers like Lt Col John George and Audie Murphy and a total failure for others?

Was there any difference other than the man pulling the trigger? George and Murphy were expert shots and very cool under stress. Did this make a difference? Did the unhappy carbineers blame the firearm for there own shortcomings? Did stress and fear cause some to fire wildly, ignoring the sights? Did Sarge's cousin actually open the Japs shirt and count 14 bullet holes? Perhaps, but I doubt it.

I never shot any human but I have killed 20 whitetail deer. One with a 12 ga shotgun , using sabot slug. One with a 44 mag revolver. 4 with a 50 cal flintlock. The rest were with 270 and 30-06 rifles. The deer were small, 100 to 120 lbs and the ranges were between 20 and 165 yds.

Most people would consider all of the above firearms adequate for self defense.

The deer I shot with the 12 gage was the most extreme. I hit it in the chest cavity , but to far back . It ran 450 yards and was still alive when I found it. Had the deer been an armed human I'd probably be dead.

The deer shot with the other firearms , fall into 2 categories. Shots that affected the spine and shots that didn't. Shots that affected the spine went down immediately. Heart and lung shots stay alive long enough to run between 50 and 150 yds. had these deer been armed human I might have had a problem. And remember, this is with a overpowered firearm using soft points and a 120 lb deer.

Bottom line , make one good shot and its all over. Make 14 poor shots and a Jap will fall in your foxhole.

Jim C

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I remember reading of one D-Day paratrooper who had a knack with launching rifle grenades off of carbines . His commander found out , so he practiced heavily with them prior to the jump . He jumped with a carbine and a sack of grenades and lots of grenade launching charges . Others in the unit jumped with more grenades and a couple of spare stocks . The commander used him as his personal " pocket mortar unit " . I read he was highly effective .

Chris

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love it.

 

I had the opportunity to shoot several examples during travels to the far east, while training with the local military forces who were the recipients of the M1 rifles and carbines from the US, post WWII and Korea. I always had a little fondness and curiosity to the neat little carbine, but never had the chance to really wring one out and put it through it's paces. Mostly we blasted away full-auto on steel targets at close range (15-100 yards), and horsed around shooting fruit and vegetables without putting much effort or thought into the guns themselves. It wasn't until I saw an M1 Carbine in use in Iraq in 2003 by a coalition soldier that I decided if I could find one, I would get one eventually. Other guns had some priority, so it took a little time before it got to the top of the list.

 

As I began my search, I saw that Auto-Ordnance had begun marketing their new version. That seemed to me the way to go. Classic, but modern. Then I saw the CMP offerings, and after realizing I was eligible to purchase via the CMP, I changed my mind and decided a true vintage M1 Carbine was the way I wanted to go.

 

I picked up my National Postal Meter example from the CMP in 2007 if I recall correctly. It was in rough shape, both cosmetically, and the bore had some nice gouges and rust. I knew exactly nothing about the gun, so after being assured by an expert on the topic of used gun values that this particular piece had no significant monetary or collector value, I set out on a quest to restore it for function and some looks.

 

I detail stripped the entire gun, down to the ejector (which I launched, and lost). A quick order for a few replacements solved that problem. In the meantime, I blasted all of the metal components down to bare metal, and began stripping the stock. Once I got the parts, I reassembled the bolt, and began the painting process. I painted all of the metal plain old black with some Spray N Bake from Brownell's. I hand oiled the stock until it shined like new. Well, new with a bunch of gouges and dings. But still shined and looked 10 times better than it did when I got it.

 

After the paint dried and was baked on, I reassembled the entire carbine, and added an Ultimak front end. The rear sight assembly was a hot mess, and beyond repair for a meathead like me. I left it alone. Still needing a way to shoot accurately, I took a left over AimPoint R-1 Micro sight I had lying around and painted it to match the metal parts. I installed it on the Ultimak rail, and set off for the range.

 

I zeroed the carbine at 50 yards with the AimPoint, and was able to keep sub-Minute (<1/2") groups throughout the zeroing process using Federal SP ammunition. Once I had my 50 yard zero, I switched to Aguilla FMJ and walked over to the far left flank of my local range where they have steel gongs at 100, 200, and 300. I easily kept my rounds on the 100 yard plate, to the point it rang with boring regularity. New mag, off to 200. 10 for 10. New mag and off to 300. While I wasn't 100% at 300, I was still impressed with the carbine's ability to hit the 10" target at that range without significant holder over or KY windage/guessing.

 

As beat up, and rough looking as this specimen looked on delivery, it turned out looking decent, and shooting better than I would have guessed it was capable of. I love the action, how smooth and sloppy and loose it is, yet the gun is still capable of delivering acceptable combat accuracy out to 300 yards. I have yet to have a malfunction, even when using cheap Korean mags and mostly Aguilla 110 grain FMJ. Now, I only have about 1500 rounds through the gun, but still, 100% reliability using crappy bulk purchase ammo out of a gun that is easily 70+ years old is not too shabby.

 

Is it my "go to gun" for when the Zombie invasion begins, or the Nazi's try storming the beaches of Nantucket?

 

Probably not. But even with FMJ, it is zipping along nicely, and I know those rounds will go where I want them to go so long as I do my part. I have no hesitation grabbing it for an "oh shit" moment if it happens to be closest.

 

Love it. I would buy another in a hot heartbeat if the price was right.

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