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Help to I.D. magazine


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#1 Mike Hammer

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:39 AM

I picked up this magazine at the gun show the other day, was not certain what sub gun it was for but it was pretty much included with the Grease gun magazine pouch I bought. My best guess is that it's for the Fbp sub gun but thought I would ask here since someone must know for sure.

 

Nearly the same size as an MP 40 mag which I pictured it next to for comparison. It has what appears to be a marking near the center that's an MB1, also a boxed SA marking What do you think?

 

Mike H.

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#2 DougStump

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:12 PM

Looks like a Belgian Vigneron mag. I modified several for a friend's MP-40.
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#3 Mike Hammer

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 01:30 PM

Thanks Doug, that was actually my initial thought however with the greater width for what would possibly be a longer cartridge I thought it might be for something else.

 

MH


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#4 Got Uzi

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 07:05 PM

It reminds me of a STEN mag. Ive seen that SA marking on mags before but I cant remember where tho
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#5 StrangeRanger

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 09:40 AM

The SA in a square marking is on my Suomi/Swedish K mags.  I do not know whether they are Finnish or Swedish in origin but I strongly suspect the former. However the mag in question is clearly not compatible with the Swedish K but it might fit the Finnish guns before 1955 when they changed magazine styles to match the K.  The Finns also used the 7.62 x 25 cartridge in their M/26 SMG which would account for the extra length.  Could that be what this one is for?


Edited by StrangeRanger, 13 November 2019 - 10:04 AM.

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#6 StrangeRanger

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 10:08 AM

Here's the markings on my mags.  Very similar.

Sorry for the crappy pix, my phone doesn't have a macro mode

Also "MB1" looks like "M31" to me which pretty well screams Finnish.  I've never seen an M/31 with the pre-conversion mag well so I can't state anything definitely

 

EDIT: I did a little searching SA stands for Suomen Armeija (Finnish Army.)

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Edited by StrangeRanger, 13 November 2019 - 12:04 PM.

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#7 Mike Hammer

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:28 AM

Yes, the three pictures shown here of Suomi mags do have the same Boxed SA marking, but the mag looks nothing like the one I have. I'm also not entirely convinced it's a Belgian Vigneron mag, otherwise why would it have the Finnish SA markings. And the dimensions while they appear very close to a Vigneron mag there seems to be slight differences particularly in the width (cartridge length) of the mag. And in the last picture, (a Vigneron mag) they are marked with a VIG marking easily identifying them.

 

Mike H.

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#8 StrangeRanger

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 12:01 PM

But the Suomi mags that you and I have are the late model (i.e. after the 1955 conversion to Swedish M/45B style) mags.  I do not know what the earlier mags looked like.  If they were of this pattern then there's a possible scenario that would explain what you have.

 

The original M/26 were made long enough to accommodate the 7.62 x 25

When the M/31 was designed  it was decided to use the same tooling to produce the guns, the magazines or both so the magazines were left at the same length.

There were some minor changes to the feed lips or follower which necessitated marking the new mags as "M31" so they would not accidentally be used with the 7.62 rounds in the older guns.

All of these mags were scrapped/surplussed when the existing M/31s were converted to use K mags c. 1955 and one somehow made its way to you

 

The only question is: what did the original mags look like?


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#9 dalbert

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:37 PM

Yes, the three pictures shown here of Suomi mags do have the same Boxed SA marking, but the mag looks nothing like the one I have. I'm also not entirely convinced it's a Belgian Vigneron mag, otherwise why would it have the Finnish SA markings. And the dimensions while they appear very close to a Vigneron mag there seems to be slight differences particularly in the width (cartridge length) of the mag. And in the last picture, (a Vigneron mag) they are marked with a VIG marking easily identifying them.

 

Mike H.

 

I have a dummy Vigneron SMG, and my magazine is like the one in the last picture you posted.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


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#10 Mike Hammer

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:35 PM

I got that close up photo of the Vigneron mag off the internet, I’m assuming all of there mags are marked that way and is why I’m thinking my mag in question is not a Vigneron. So far the best bet is S.R.’s suggestion of a Suomi M31 pre-conversion mag, it would be nice to confirm this somehow.
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#11 1gewehr

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 02:35 PM

It sure looks like a STEn mag to me.  Not sure of the markings, aside from the Finnish SA.  Many countries made STEn mags.  And the Finns imported weapons from a wide variety of sources from 1940-1944.  It's not unreasonable to think that they made or bought STEns.


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#12 Mike Hammer

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 06:42 AM

When I have the time I will pull out one of my Sten mags for my Mac and see how they compare and post pics.

 

Mike H.


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#13 StrangeRanger

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Posted 18 November 2019 - 07:56 AM

One of these days, I'll learn to search before I type.  According to Wikipedia and a couple of other sources Finland purchased 76,115 Mk2 Stens in 1957-58.


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#14 Mike Hammer

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 06:02 PM

When I have the time I will pull out one of my Sten mags for my Mac and see how they compare and post pics.

 

Mike H.

Don't know how this slipped past me, I guess the markings threw me off. After pulling out one my Sten mags for my Mac 11 9mm and comparing it, yes this Finnish mag is for the Sten. Cool!

 

Mike H.


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#15 m3bobby

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Posted 11 December 2019 - 03:24 PM

I must have missed this post earlier but the mag looks to be a STEN magazine Mk1 made by the Metal Box Co. but it's a little odd on the back spine. Normally STEN mags have an indentation running the length of the spine but this was does not appear to. Unfortunately I don't have a Metal Box Co version in my collection to compare to so it could just be a variation as manufacturers were allowed to deviate to suit their machines and process as long as it didn't effect the overall product compatibility etc.


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#16 Mk VII

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Posted 29 December 2019 - 06:04 PM

Finland was a big postwar user of the Sten gun. 


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#17 m3bobby

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:59 AM

Well after going through my collection it turns out I do have a Metal Box Company STEN mag and it also turns out, it doesnt have the indentation!
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#18 BillyDixon

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 08:28 PM

way back in the day sam cummings of interarms fame bought many thousands of brand new never issued sten  mark 3 from england govt , he paid something  like 25 cents each, he had a deal that finland  wanted guns to arm its home guard,,at that time finland hade a hughe pile of captured german and russian stuff, sam cummings traded the finns one for one,, what a deal ! this started the whole post war flood of arms into the u.s. just sayn


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#19 m3bobby

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Posted 04 January 2020 - 04:59 AM

Ive got an ex Fin Mk2 and it has such nice bluing, its the best finish Ive ever seen on a STEN.
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